Episode 2 Audio: Bhaskar Sunkara

During our pre-interview conversation on Tuesday with this week’s guest, Bhaskar Sunkara, Bhaskar raised the issue of polarization. What kind of polarization is actually necessary not to harm the left and erode democracy, but to support it? We could not have anticipated how timely this topic would become. A deeply radicalized right-wing group stormed the U.S. Capitol the following day. Whether this insurrection was a direct grab for power or a symbolic maneuver — which we discuss at the start of our second episode — it has brought the political themes of polarization, protecting democracy, and building durable political power to center stage. We delve into these topics at even greater length in our conversation with Bhaskar, available in audio above, in video for our paid subscribers, and on streaming platforms like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Stitcher.

In this conversation, Bhaskar argues that it isn’t enough for the left to demand polarization without substance. Within a liberal framework, fascism is presented as the opposite of order and decency; these two poles set the terms for political discussion. But, as Bhaskar points out, the liberal representatives of “order and decency” are Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden — two people who have dedicated careers to promoting an elite-friendly status quo. The left needs polarization that is centered on class struggle against exploitation. While Trump exists as a threat to American democracy, neoliberals will weaponize that threat to shut down progressive demands. To break out of this bind, the left must build power strategically — working in coalitions only when meaningful change can be delivered, and never compromising the anti-establishment spirit that seeks to put the people in power.

It’s a pleasure to hear Bhaskar discuss the political background that led him to found Jacobin and become a prominent figure on the American left. From Marx, he gained an understanding of history through the lens of class struggle, but critical to his politics and to the politics of Jacobin is the project of making these fundamental ideas accessible, not alienating. As Bhaskar puts it, these ideas offer answers to big questions like “Who gets to dictate decisions about how society is structured?” — questions that are deeply relevant to the working class in America and around the world. In a country where the moon landing was a major political priority but ending homelessness is not, the left has the insight to point out why government isn’t answering to human need. To hear more about how we go about changing that, and where we go from here, Krystal Kyle & Friends invites you to listen to our conversation with Bhaskar Sunkara, founding editor of Jacobin and author of The Socialist Manifesto. We hope you enjoy it, and as always, we’re so grateful to you for tuning in.