I'm so disappointed in this show. The way you have coputulated to the democratic party you are no longer an alternative to mainstream neoliberal media. I may as well watch MSNBC or CNN.
You’re setting up straw man arguments. The aim is not to win. It’s to try and get the 5% required for Federal funding, to advance the viability of 3rd parties in future elections, to show the DNC that we won’t cave into the scare tactics and the long moribund “Lesserevilism”, i mean it’s debatable who actually is the lesser evil. It depends on your ethics or priorities. There are things called ‘Principles’ and ‘Red Lines’, which Kyle used to talk about but has seemingly never really had any after all. The duopoly has to be broken and it’s always going to be easier to accept the Dems - fake - promises than do the difficult thing. Nothing ever worth doing is easy and it never happens overnight, but it does have to start somewhere. It may take years, but it’ll be even longer if it’s continuously postponed. We have to demonstrate our convictions are real, not just talking points on a Utube channel. But you two know all this anyway, which is why you’re making such strawman arguments and establishment reasoning. The only question is why?
A great topic and guest! I'd love to see Cornel West be directly interviewed as well. He has made himself available to independent media so there's no reason not to have him present his case to audiences of this Substack and Breaking Points.
I like to see either the two parties destroyed or seriously weakened. There strangle hold on to power is sickening and all they seek is money and power. They do not in anyways care to be Shepard's of the citizens of our country. A system of either no parties or a system of allowing all parties is exceptable..... which will give more say to everyone who votes.
You guys think trump and biden are the same??? that is crazy to me. i told friends who cares who you vote for in 2016 (i was 18 lol) some voted trump and look where that led. his supreme court picks led to the overturn of roe v wade. biden may not fulfil all his promises but he is much better than trump.
"On so many core issues, he's against us... Joe Biden pushed for NAFTA. He repeatedly pushed for TPP. He's a supporter of the Iraq War. On all the pivotal issues of his time, he was wrong. So stop overstating how bad Trump is. The country is going to exist in four years. And understating how bad Biden is. Because its annoying. I just don't agree with the people, who are like, 'He's a fascist. He's a nazi. The country is not going to exist in 4 years.' You're hyperbolic. And you're ridiculous"
"Signing on for an affirmative Joe Biden vote mean actively voting for a politician and political movement that's most deeply held conviction is kicking you in the face"
The biggest problem with American politics is that the two parties completely control who runs and who gets coverage. It’s broken and they don’t produce candidates for the people. People should vote 3rd party to address the biggest issue in our country
"Responsibility is placed solely on the voters to suck it up and vote for Joe. I'm not buying it. The moment we say 'Don't worry Joe. We're all going to back you up'. Is the moment that the establishment sees they can do whatever they want to us, and still sell out the working class for all eternity and we're just going to take it"
"Its so clear now the whole "Vote Blue No Matter Who" line is a total con job.
Designed to quash any dissent so they can shove any neoliberal corporatist nonsense down our throats. And we are just supposed to accept it all because at least it's not Donald Trump. "
"I will never allow myself to be put in a situation where basically my only real presidential choices are shoot me and stab me... You're not going to tell me or anyone else that we now have to vote for that person"
Briahna Joy Gray CHOOSES not to do the simple math:
There were those of us Bernie supporters in 2016 who were devastated when our ideals failed to win in the Democratic primaries for various reasons. Some of us manned the F up, swallowed the bitter pill of reality and voted for Hillary over Trump in the general election. We didn't sit out on a chance to prevent a rollback of our progress on social and economic fronts.
Even if we only consider the damage caused by Trump's SCOTUS nominations (and the decades of future damage they will cause), voting Hillary would have meaningful change for millions in significant ways - FOR DECADES. So when I hear someone like Brianha say "I'm not afraid of Trump" while downplaying real material benefits and progress for working folks that a Democrat admin is providing, I can't see it as anything other than being extremely out of touch. I don't know her exact situation to say that it comes from some sort of privileged position, but it sure as heck looks that way when someone feels comfortable enough to basically say "My aim is to use my platform to get others to take a 3rd party vote gamble, one that has cost us dearly in elections all too recently, when the stakes are: The most powerful fascist our nation faces will win if we don't vote for the Dem nominee in our currently 2 part system. He is running "with a vengeance" and will use presidential power to complete his thwarted project of 2020 to throw out your and my votes and stay in power to rule. He's only gotten more radical, saying he'd "ban communists and marxists" from entering the US.
If anyone actually believes that we will get ranked choice voting, maintain our rights to anything (much less get more rights that we need) or have a democracy or bright future of addressing the climate emergency under those conditions... YOU'RE DELUSIONAL!
2016 - supported Bernie in primary, Clinton in general.
2020 - supported Bernie in the primary, Biden in the general.
2024 - Williamson is my primary choice, but the numbers indicate I will be voting Biden in the general. I hope that my primary vote could have a similar influence that our Bernie support did on Biden's admin. Every time Biden is surprisingly based, I cheer for Dark Brandon and then mumble "he could actually do more on this..) Every time I see Bernie's influence of being in his ear I get a big grin and know that was us helping to bring about real change. When Bernie doesn't have enough influence I acknowledge that I , you, Kyle, Brianha, and Bernie all failed to do enough to get Bernie and our ideals across that finish line. WE didn't have enough momentum to overcome the system.
But we can sure as hell preserve those gains and use them to build up within the existing structure until we reach a RCV or electoral college overhaul tipping point. But I will NOT be meek and quiet while voices like BJG gamble our gains away. I critique Kyle often on some details, but he was in peak form not backing down from his position where he is 100% correct.
BJG's accelerationist position will lose us everything just so we can pat ourselves on the back and lie to ourselves "My vote was more moral than yours" while the fascists take away our futures.
More needs to be said about the historical context. The greatest change agents in our nation's history were not only pragmatic strategists but also deeply convicted and courageous advocates willing to chart new territory with courage and daring. I address this in a recent piece on the abolitionists and suffragists. "What's Wrong with Moderation? What Our Feminist and Abolitionist Foremothers and Forefathers Teach Us about Social Transformation and the False Compromise Fallacy" https://jeffreynall.substack.com/p/whats-wrong-with-moderation It's also worth noting that Gandhi identified courage as the central virtue for not only living well but also for effecting political change. All of these agents of change recognized the dangers of allowing fear to become the primary rubric by which we judge our choices. Briahna, early on, identifies a fundamental logical flaw in the lesser-evil option: at what point do we begin to chart a new territory in the direction toward visionary change? How much longer is it strategically wise to continue hedging our bets while we lose more and more footing?
Can a third party win?
I'm so disappointed in this show. The way you have coputulated to the democratic party you are no longer an alternative to mainstream neoliberal media. I may as well watch MSNBC or CNN.
Hoping Brie helps put to bed this Maryanne delusion and the idea that any democrats deserve our votes.
You’re setting up straw man arguments. The aim is not to win. It’s to try and get the 5% required for Federal funding, to advance the viability of 3rd parties in future elections, to show the DNC that we won’t cave into the scare tactics and the long moribund “Lesserevilism”, i mean it’s debatable who actually is the lesser evil. It depends on your ethics or priorities. There are things called ‘Principles’ and ‘Red Lines’, which Kyle used to talk about but has seemingly never really had any after all. The duopoly has to be broken and it’s always going to be easier to accept the Dems - fake - promises than do the difficult thing. Nothing ever worth doing is easy and it never happens overnight, but it does have to start somewhere. It may take years, but it’ll be even longer if it’s continuously postponed. We have to demonstrate our convictions are real, not just talking points on a Utube channel. But you two know all this anyway, which is why you’re making such strawman arguments and establishment reasoning. The only question is why?
A great topic and guest! I'd love to see Cornel West be directly interviewed as well. He has made himself available to independent media so there's no reason not to have him present his case to audiences of this Substack and Breaking Points.
Fuck em up bri
I like to see either the two parties destroyed or seriously weakened. There strangle hold on to power is sickening and all they seek is money and power. They do not in anyways care to be Shepard's of the citizens of our country. A system of either no parties or a system of allowing all parties is exceptable..... which will give more say to everyone who votes.
You guys think trump and biden are the same??? that is crazy to me. i told friends who cares who you vote for in 2016 (i was 18 lol) some voted trump and look where that led. his supreme court picks led to the overturn of roe v wade. biden may not fulfil all his promises but he is much better than trump.
Kyle Kulinski on Joe Biden:
"On so many core issues, he's against us... Joe Biden pushed for NAFTA. He repeatedly pushed for TPP. He's a supporter of the Iraq War. On all the pivotal issues of his time, he was wrong. So stop overstating how bad Trump is. The country is going to exist in four years. And understating how bad Biden is. Because its annoying. I just don't agree with the people, who are like, 'He's a fascist. He's a nazi. The country is not going to exist in 4 years.' You're hyperbolic. And you're ridiculous"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH2uhKxDnnw&t=1s
"Signing on for an affirmative Joe Biden vote mean actively voting for a politician and political movement that's most deeply held conviction is kicking you in the face"
-- Krystal Ball 2020
The biggest problem with American politics is that the two parties completely control who runs and who gets coverage. It’s broken and they don’t produce candidates for the people. People should vote 3rd party to address the biggest issue in our country
This is the best 2024 election tee: tinyurl.com/2p9ww9xt
And it's not even close.
"Responsibility is placed solely on the voters to suck it up and vote for Joe. I'm not buying it. The moment we say 'Don't worry Joe. We're all going to back you up'. Is the moment that the establishment sees they can do whatever they want to us, and still sell out the working class for all eternity and we're just going to take it"
-- (Vintage) Krystal Ball
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peaZUuvec0k
"Its so clear now the whole "Vote Blue No Matter Who" line is a total con job.
Designed to quash any dissent so they can shove any neoliberal corporatist nonsense down our throats. And we are just supposed to accept it all because at least it's not Donald Trump. "
-- (Vintage) Krystal Ball
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peaZUuvec0k
"I will never allow myself to be put in a situation where basically my only real presidential choices are shoot me and stab me... You're not going to tell me or anyone else that we now have to vote for that person"
-- (Vintage) Krystal Ball
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peaZUuvec0k
Briahna Joy Gray CHOOSES not to do the simple math:
There were those of us Bernie supporters in 2016 who were devastated when our ideals failed to win in the Democratic primaries for various reasons. Some of us manned the F up, swallowed the bitter pill of reality and voted for Hillary over Trump in the general election. We didn't sit out on a chance to prevent a rollback of our progress on social and economic fronts.
Even if we only consider the damage caused by Trump's SCOTUS nominations (and the decades of future damage they will cause), voting Hillary would have meaningful change for millions in significant ways - FOR DECADES. So when I hear someone like Brianha say "I'm not afraid of Trump" while downplaying real material benefits and progress for working folks that a Democrat admin is providing, I can't see it as anything other than being extremely out of touch. I don't know her exact situation to say that it comes from some sort of privileged position, but it sure as heck looks that way when someone feels comfortable enough to basically say "My aim is to use my platform to get others to take a 3rd party vote gamble, one that has cost us dearly in elections all too recently, when the stakes are: The most powerful fascist our nation faces will win if we don't vote for the Dem nominee in our currently 2 part system. He is running "with a vengeance" and will use presidential power to complete his thwarted project of 2020 to throw out your and my votes and stay in power to rule. He's only gotten more radical, saying he'd "ban communists and marxists" from entering the US.
If anyone actually believes that we will get ranked choice voting, maintain our rights to anything (much less get more rights that we need) or have a democracy or bright future of addressing the climate emergency under those conditions... YOU'RE DELUSIONAL!
2016 - supported Bernie in primary, Clinton in general.
2020 - supported Bernie in the primary, Biden in the general.
2024 - Williamson is my primary choice, but the numbers indicate I will be voting Biden in the general. I hope that my primary vote could have a similar influence that our Bernie support did on Biden's admin. Every time Biden is surprisingly based, I cheer for Dark Brandon and then mumble "he could actually do more on this..) Every time I see Bernie's influence of being in his ear I get a big grin and know that was us helping to bring about real change. When Bernie doesn't have enough influence I acknowledge that I , you, Kyle, Brianha, and Bernie all failed to do enough to get Bernie and our ideals across that finish line. WE didn't have enough momentum to overcome the system.
But we can sure as hell preserve those gains and use them to build up within the existing structure until we reach a RCV or electoral college overhaul tipping point. But I will NOT be meek and quiet while voices like BJG gamble our gains away. I critique Kyle often on some details, but he was in peak form not backing down from his position where he is 100% correct.
BJG's accelerationist position will lose us everything just so we can pat ourselves on the back and lie to ourselves "My vote was more moral than yours" while the fascists take away our futures.
More needs to be said about the historical context. The greatest change agents in our nation's history were not only pragmatic strategists but also deeply convicted and courageous advocates willing to chart new territory with courage and daring. I address this in a recent piece on the abolitionists and suffragists. "What's Wrong with Moderation? What Our Feminist and Abolitionist Foremothers and Forefathers Teach Us about Social Transformation and the False Compromise Fallacy" https://jeffreynall.substack.com/p/whats-wrong-with-moderation It's also worth noting that Gandhi identified courage as the central virtue for not only living well but also for effecting political change. All of these agents of change recognized the dangers of allowing fear to become the primary rubric by which we judge our choices. Briahna, early on, identifies a fundamental logical flaw in the lesser-evil option: at what point do we begin to chart a new territory in the direction toward visionary change? How much longer is it strategically wise to continue hedging our bets while we lose more and more footing?