Listen now | We've got a wide-ranging and thought-provoking conversation with author and political commentator Norman Finkelstein, covering everything from the 2020 Sanders campaign's strategy and messaging, the current state of American politics, political appeals to the working class, and more. Norm joins us to talk about "hyper-wokeness," both its manifestations in the 2020 presidential election and beyond. How do identity politics and class struggle interact, and how did we see that on debate stages and campaign trains? What role should identity politics play in political discourse at large? Norm has plenty of thoughts to share on these topics, and we hope you'll join us for the debate.
Hi Krystal or kyle, I don’t know if this episode was frustrating for you. It was for me I felt like he wasn’t answering your questions and also I don’t understand why he kept making a point to mention acting in good faith, I just felt like it was an unnecessary point to keep making. Also for how the beginning of the episode started with him addressing Krystal’s success it was just a strange direction to go in cause it felt like he wasn’t listening to what you both said.
Towards the back half it felt like an old man just venting his frustrations about the kids these days. Lol. He was doing the whole "back in my day" bit, the point got stale but he just kept going. Here's to hoping the next guest has a more even temperament.
I never leave comments on here. To be honest I just listen on Spotify because it's more convenient lol. I pay the $5/month to support, but it's more convenient to listen to the audio than to watch the video on here.
Anyway, yeah, I never comment, but this guy...yikes. I'm not in favor of censorship but boy oh boy was he yikes for me. Glad some people enjoyed him, good for them. Towards the back half it sorta spiraled into this "back in my day" thing and felt like an old man just venting his frustrations about the kids these days. Lol. Anyway, moving on from him, hoping the next guest has a more stable temperament.
Back to deleting comments… nice. So much for ignoring criticism. Anyhow, just thought your listeners should hear this perspective— banning books that are intended for children that involve inappropriate content IS NOT fascism. Similarly to how an R rating on a movie isn’t fascism. !
That might not be, however there are plenty of examples of books that ARE inappropriate being made available to children. And blocking laws allowing the transitioning of minors with gender dysphoria isn’t fascism either.
First; movie ratings are a form of parental ADVISORY so it’s not the same at all. We don’t literally ban R rated movies from theaters. You can take your children to an R rated movie if you want.
Book banning for ideological reasons is definitionally authoritarian. I don’t care to engage with whether its fascistic because it doesn’t matter at all. It’s authoritarian and anti-democratic and it’s pro-stupid. We don’t want ignorant kids that don’t have critical thinking skills. I don’t trust far right Governors deciding what can or cannot be read in schools. If you can sweep in Toni Morrison or Octavia butler into your book ban you have no credibility on this issue. It isn’t just lgbt. They don’t want kids learning about actually history which is bull shit. I thought the Right was all about Parental Rights? We don’t need the state banning books.
With respect to transitioning, this is not an actual issue anywhere. Let parents decide for their own kids. The numbers of kids actually transitioning is minuscule (literally less than 5,000 nationwide). This is a culture war issue that the Right is CLEARLY using to stir up hate to get votes. This is the oldest playbook they have. They used Gay people as the boogie man in early 00’s. They literally never gave a shit about kids. Half these states have tried to cut funding to their free and reduced lunch programs at school for poor kids. Also, why are you so upset if someone transitions? Who literally cares. It doesn’t affect you, let it go.
Book banning on the basis of appropriateness is not authoritarian. Medically transitioning minors is wrong no matter who is facilitating it. It is not based on science. Gender dysphoria is a psychological condition and should be treated as such. You wouldn’t perform a surgery to reduce the size of an anorexic person’s stomach just bc they think they are overweight.
It is absolutely by definition authoritarian. Just own it bro. I already explained that the banning isn’t on the basis of propriety. If you think teaching actual history and literature to kids in school is inappropriate, we have different definitions of that word. Book banning is by definition an authoritarian.
I just explained that no one is forcing kids to transition. You are giving us your opinions about transitioning. I frankly don’t care about your opinions about surgeries. In reality, states aren’t just banning surgeries they’re banning all gender affirmation care including psych treatment. That’s moronic and indefensible.
People can disagree with your opinions that aren’t based in science. Let them disagree. Quit being an autocrat and let people decide what to do with them and their children.
Also the analogies you are using are so bad. We actually do allow surgeries on obese kids to reduce their weight. We allow parents to consent to all sorts of things. Minors are allowed to get breast reduction/enhancement surgery at 15. People have their kids circumcised at infancy. Because you disagree with something that makes you feel uncomfortable is not a good reason to ban it legislatively. That is being autocrat. Just own it.
You wanting to allow transition of minors isn’t based on science. And there’s nothing noble about defending the supplying of inappropriate material to children but whatevs
Just to be clear about “book banning”, I’m speaking in the context of what is allowed in schools as a part of the curriculum, not an outright ban. However, some of the stuff sounds straight up wretched.
Buy his new book, it's great: https://www.sublationmedia.com/books/i'll-burn-that-bridge-when-i-get-to-it
This guy was amazing
Hi Krystal or kyle, I don’t know if this episode was frustrating for you. It was for me I felt like he wasn’t answering your questions and also I don’t understand why he kept making a point to mention acting in good faith, I just felt like it was an unnecessary point to keep making. Also for how the beginning of the episode started with him addressing Krystal’s success it was just a strange direction to go in cause it felt like he wasn’t listening to what you both said.
Towards the back half it felt like an old man just venting his frustrations about the kids these days. Lol. He was doing the whole "back in my day" bit, the point got stale but he just kept going. Here's to hoping the next guest has a more even temperament.
Agreed.
Demolition Man's "utopia" is Kyle's definition of wokeness.
I never leave comments on here. To be honest I just listen on Spotify because it's more convenient lol. I pay the $5/month to support, but it's more convenient to listen to the audio than to watch the video on here.
Anyway, yeah, I never comment, but this guy...yikes. I'm not in favor of censorship but boy oh boy was he yikes for me. Glad some people enjoyed him, good for them. Towards the back half it sorta spiraled into this "back in my day" thing and felt like an old man just venting his frustrations about the kids these days. Lol. Anyway, moving on from him, hoping the next guest has a more stable temperament.
Norman is such a character!
Kyle out here supporting anti science like “LEt tHE kIdS tRaNsITiOn”
Request you to gift Norman a great home podcast-quality microphone.
Back to deleting comments… nice. So much for ignoring criticism. Anyhow, just thought your listeners should hear this perspective— banning books that are intended for children that involve inappropriate content IS NOT fascism. Similarly to how an R rating on a movie isn’t fascism. !
Beloved by Toni Morrison is not inappropriate for high schoolers.
That might not be, however there are plenty of examples of books that ARE inappropriate being made available to children. And blocking laws allowing the transitioning of minors with gender dysphoria isn’t fascism either.
First; movie ratings are a form of parental ADVISORY so it’s not the same at all. We don’t literally ban R rated movies from theaters. You can take your children to an R rated movie if you want.
Book banning for ideological reasons is definitionally authoritarian. I don’t care to engage with whether its fascistic because it doesn’t matter at all. It’s authoritarian and anti-democratic and it’s pro-stupid. We don’t want ignorant kids that don’t have critical thinking skills. I don’t trust far right Governors deciding what can or cannot be read in schools. If you can sweep in Toni Morrison or Octavia butler into your book ban you have no credibility on this issue. It isn’t just lgbt. They don’t want kids learning about actually history which is bull shit. I thought the Right was all about Parental Rights? We don’t need the state banning books.
With respect to transitioning, this is not an actual issue anywhere. Let parents decide for their own kids. The numbers of kids actually transitioning is minuscule (literally less than 5,000 nationwide). This is a culture war issue that the Right is CLEARLY using to stir up hate to get votes. This is the oldest playbook they have. They used Gay people as the boogie man in early 00’s. They literally never gave a shit about kids. Half these states have tried to cut funding to their free and reduced lunch programs at school for poor kids. Also, why are you so upset if someone transitions? Who literally cares. It doesn’t affect you, let it go.
Book banning on the basis of appropriateness is not authoritarian. Medically transitioning minors is wrong no matter who is facilitating it. It is not based on science. Gender dysphoria is a psychological condition and should be treated as such. You wouldn’t perform a surgery to reduce the size of an anorexic person’s stomach just bc they think they are overweight.
It is absolutely by definition authoritarian. Just own it bro. I already explained that the banning isn’t on the basis of propriety. If you think teaching actual history and literature to kids in school is inappropriate, we have different definitions of that word. Book banning is by definition an authoritarian.
I just explained that no one is forcing kids to transition. You are giving us your opinions about transitioning. I frankly don’t care about your opinions about surgeries. In reality, states aren’t just banning surgeries they’re banning all gender affirmation care including psych treatment. That’s moronic and indefensible.
People can disagree with your opinions that aren’t based in science. Let them disagree. Quit being an autocrat and let people decide what to do with them and their children.
Also the analogies you are using are so bad. We actually do allow surgeries on obese kids to reduce their weight. We allow parents to consent to all sorts of things. Minors are allowed to get breast reduction/enhancement surgery at 15. People have their kids circumcised at infancy. Because you disagree with something that makes you feel uncomfortable is not a good reason to ban it legislatively. That is being autocrat. Just own it.
You wanting to allow transition of minors isn’t based on science. And there’s nothing noble about defending the supplying of inappropriate material to children but whatevs
Just to be clear about “book banning”, I’m speaking in the context of what is allowed in schools as a part of the curriculum, not an outright ban. However, some of the stuff sounds straight up wretched.
What was deleted?
A couple of my comments defending Norm’s stance on trans and against transitioning minors
Sad K&K are on the wrong side of these issues but no one gets everything right.