I don’t know where else to plug this idea, but would you two try to bring on Beau of the fifth column? Anti authoritarian left who was very much engulfed in the authoritarian right for a while(ex-military and cop trainer). I think he would fall into the libertarian left, but has a cool temper and ability to see perspectives that rarely occur to me.
I was/am a Bernie-or-bust voter. Voted green both 2016 and 2020. You can try to tell me how much of a lesser evil Hilary/Biden was/is than Trump but 1) they still evil and 2) more importantly, I disagree and this is why: the Democrats have moved so far right since Clinton and the liberal voters and media “go back to brunch” and go to sleep every.single.time under Democratic administrations and really harmful things get passed that wouldn’t get passed under Republican leadership because of the blowback and uproar that’s present when there’s a GOP president.
As Thomas Frank spells out, if you look at NAFTA, ‘94 Crime Bill, Balanced Budget, [resulting from] gutting of the Welfare system, bank & telecom deregulation for Clinton, and as Chris Hedges shows, amongst other things, Obama’s failure to prosecute Wall Street, further the class divide, his overseeing of the decaying of middle class wealth via home ownership, expansion of the security/surveillance state, prosecuting whistleblowers, TPP…these are things that would have been VOCIFEROUSLY fought by liberals if attempted under Republican leadership, perhaps to the point of curtailing some of them.
So spare me the ghouls of the blue team being the lesser of 2 evils. I’ll pass on the 40 year plan Vaush is talking about and abandoning principles when it comes to voting.
There isn't a single argument on the planet that would ever convince me to go back to voting for a Democratic candidate for president. Ever. And if all of us had stuck to our principles, we'd have Bernie Sanders as president today. I'm DONE being bullied or shamed or spoken down to as if I'm stupid about how politics "works," by people who keep the status quo in power. Fuck that noise.
Seeing Vaush and Kyle converse is a dream come true. Two lefty figures that helped pull out the right-wing tendencies and that got me interested in politics!
With a long conservative legacy and being the candidate of "no substantial change" Biden had no hope in hell of getting my vote. Healthcare's my redline and that's all he had to convince me he would deliver. Instead, he shrugged it off as instinctively a Republican would during the campaign.
I don’t like Vaush, but I do appreciate Krystal and Kyle’s efforts to have a respectful & civil conversation with him and other left wing commentators and ask critical questions. There is one issue I wish they would question him on though, and I haven’t yet seen it addressed.
I’ve watched nearly every Secular Talk video for the last three years, so I know Kyle doesn’t like to wade into ‘culture war’ issues, but I would argue that this goes beyond culture wars.
The very first video on Vaush’s channel at the time I found him was him was one in which he responded to JK Rowling’s very thoughtful and carefully written essay on transgender issues - which he wildly smeared as her “TERF Manifesto” in the title, and then went on to mischaracterize in the actual video. I have watched more of Vaush since then, and on this particular issue, he has made his position very clear: transwomen are women, they should be fully treated as such in all respects, and any objection to this statement is simply being reactionary and hateful.
Now seeing as I’m a woman who observes biological reality (there are two sexes, and you cannot change from one to the other), and seeing as I do not believe in the concept of a magical innate “gender identity,” and seeing as I’m highly skeptical of experimental treatments being carried out in the name of “gender transition,” I guess I’ll be called a TERF too. As a female person who will be directly impacted by legislation like the Equality Act, which would allow males who “self identify” as females to claim discrimination if they are not allowed full access to female only spaces, this is an extremely important issue to me. For other many women I know, this totally alienates us from the left, which is collectively behaving like religious, science-denying cult members on this issue.
That is my main problem with Vaush. I don’t agree with people unfairly smearing him, and I am happy to give credit where it’s due and say I agree with Vaush on most issues. But this issue affects all women’s material reality, and so it’s way too big for me personally to ignore.
In SecularTalk’s video responding to the criticism on this episode, Kyle described Vaush as “honest” and says he and Krystal asked all the important critical questions. It is NOT honest to deny material biological reality, which affects women as a class. It is dishonest for Vaush to say that males who identify with feminine stereotypes literally become females, and to encourage his huge audience in believing that females are bigots for wanting to uphold and defend our sex based rights. And I know Kyle doesn’t care about my criticism, but I do think that is a question worth pushing back on.
Force the vote was about policy, political stategy 101, and revealing fraud progressives, not dems per se. Vash is so very very wrong on that. he dems co-op progressives, it was 100% the right course to go. Even in failure, it reveals. Vash had me going until FTV came up...Dominated by bad faith actors in the establishment...talk is cheap, action is what matters
Just watched the secular talk video 'Krystal and Saagar's goodbye video PULLED...' and unsubbed from the Hill and joined this substack. Bari Weiss is trash.
I loved this ep. Subscribed to Vaush today, with a set of nudges I would like to press all of the speakers on. You were SPOT ON, Vaush and Kyle, when pointing out that a lack of charity is the problem. However, Vaush, showed a lack of charity in how he dealt with Jimmy Dore. Jimmy does fuck up a lot, but the back and fourth on who is insincere is both not unfounded, while at the same time, we know from human psychology that most people are sincere about the views they claim to have.
Things got heated on force the vote. I think Kyle should have had some convos with Jimmy directly and recorded them because they are the perfect two to speak together on both being charitable while holding people accountable. AOC didn't only drop force the vote. She tweeted that it was a hopeless endeavor and proceeded to do favors for Pelosi. On TYT, Cenk argued that you are a fool to be a part of force the vote and then flipped his position on the general topic right after it was too late, all while claiming that the difference in his views with Jimmy were about the timing, still not explaining what justifies the right timing or not.
Personally, I can be wrong, but I think Cenk is sincerely a fool on that issue and AOC has shown many signs of caving to the pressure of falling in line rather than fighting, so, a fool as well IMHO who has had the time and care to think about her options, but still chose a horrible strategy. UNLESS AOC has a literal gun to her head, she's trying to make psychopathic murderers her friends by caving to their demands at every turn.
Jimmy doesn't strategize much, but his criticism to that effect was valid. If I had a platform, I would pressure AOC to fight harder and I would show her how it's done. She and Cenk both need to be held responsible for their bad decisions. AOC did not say force the vote was a valid idea she disagreed with. She claimed it was a hopeless effort and didn't explain why or how at all. I can parse out that she is effectively selling out by her actions because there is clearly a lot she is not telling us about her thinking, and STILL hold some charity that she could mean well by it in the end. Still yet, I would shame her as I would shame a close friend for not telling us what the fuck she's thinking when she drags her feet on ANY issue.
We don't have any time to waste. Also, Vaush, you don't need to wait for alternative voting to kick in. Tell people to write in "ABSTAIN" for a position when both people running are clear pieces of shit. 1. This will encourage the nonvoters to go to the polls, because they have a choice that suits their views. 2. If enough people do this, then the polls will not be able to write off those votes as crazy people. "Abstain" should already be a required option if this were any reliable study of what the people want. As long as we have a chance to deliver a middle finger to all of the shitty candidates running, more people would vote and more of the true wisdom of the crowd will come out of it.
Something about the way this guy talks that makes me dislike him instantly... seems very full of himself and like he enjoys listening to himself speak 🤮
Dialog is good. I favor tolerance over intolerance. I want to hear healthy debate on the left - it's infinitely preferable to the circular firing squad. I want to hear Roland Martin as a guest.
I agree with Vaush 100%. Biden's record is shit but he was and is MILES better for not only the economy but for social issues, the lgbt community, and people of color than Trump. If that's not enough to convince you to vote for him then the political base of the country will just move along without you.
If you have problems with how Biden is running things now, and I have MANY, take heart in knowing that now our criticisms won't be met with "wElL whAt aBouT tRUMp?" and if they are it won't be an effective rebuttal.
I don’t know where else to plug this idea, but would you two try to bring on Beau of the fifth column? Anti authoritarian left who was very much engulfed in the authoritarian right for a while(ex-military and cop trainer). I think he would fall into the libertarian left, but has a cool temper and ability to see perspectives that rarely occur to me.
Love the work you two are doing!
I was/am a Bernie-or-bust voter. Voted green both 2016 and 2020. You can try to tell me how much of a lesser evil Hilary/Biden was/is than Trump but 1) they still evil and 2) more importantly, I disagree and this is why: the Democrats have moved so far right since Clinton and the liberal voters and media “go back to brunch” and go to sleep every.single.time under Democratic administrations and really harmful things get passed that wouldn’t get passed under Republican leadership because of the blowback and uproar that’s present when there’s a GOP president.
As Thomas Frank spells out, if you look at NAFTA, ‘94 Crime Bill, Balanced Budget, [resulting from] gutting of the Welfare system, bank & telecom deregulation for Clinton, and as Chris Hedges shows, amongst other things, Obama’s failure to prosecute Wall Street, further the class divide, his overseeing of the decaying of middle class wealth via home ownership, expansion of the security/surveillance state, prosecuting whistleblowers, TPP…these are things that would have been VOCIFEROUSLY fought by liberals if attempted under Republican leadership, perhaps to the point of curtailing some of them.
So spare me the ghouls of the blue team being the lesser of 2 evils. I’ll pass on the 40 year plan Vaush is talking about and abandoning principles when it comes to voting.
There isn't a single argument on the planet that would ever convince me to go back to voting for a Democratic candidate for president. Ever. And if all of us had stuck to our principles, we'd have Bernie Sanders as president today. I'm DONE being bullied or shamed or spoken down to as if I'm stupid about how politics "works," by people who keep the status quo in power. Fuck that noise.
Seeing Vaush and Kyle converse is a dream come true. Two lefty figures that helped pull out the right-wing tendencies and that got me interested in politics!
With a long conservative legacy and being the candidate of "no substantial change" Biden had no hope in hell of getting my vote. Healthcare's my redline and that's all he had to convince me he would deliver. Instead, he shrugged it off as instinctively a Republican would during the campaign.
I don’t like Vaush, but I do appreciate Krystal and Kyle’s efforts to have a respectful & civil conversation with him and other left wing commentators and ask critical questions. There is one issue I wish they would question him on though, and I haven’t yet seen it addressed.
I’ve watched nearly every Secular Talk video for the last three years, so I know Kyle doesn’t like to wade into ‘culture war’ issues, but I would argue that this goes beyond culture wars.
The very first video on Vaush’s channel at the time I found him was him was one in which he responded to JK Rowling’s very thoughtful and carefully written essay on transgender issues - which he wildly smeared as her “TERF Manifesto” in the title, and then went on to mischaracterize in the actual video. I have watched more of Vaush since then, and on this particular issue, he has made his position very clear: transwomen are women, they should be fully treated as such in all respects, and any objection to this statement is simply being reactionary and hateful.
Now seeing as I’m a woman who observes biological reality (there are two sexes, and you cannot change from one to the other), and seeing as I do not believe in the concept of a magical innate “gender identity,” and seeing as I’m highly skeptical of experimental treatments being carried out in the name of “gender transition,” I guess I’ll be called a TERF too. As a female person who will be directly impacted by legislation like the Equality Act, which would allow males who “self identify” as females to claim discrimination if they are not allowed full access to female only spaces, this is an extremely important issue to me. For other many women I know, this totally alienates us from the left, which is collectively behaving like religious, science-denying cult members on this issue.
That is my main problem with Vaush. I don’t agree with people unfairly smearing him, and I am happy to give credit where it’s due and say I agree with Vaush on most issues. But this issue affects all women’s material reality, and so it’s way too big for me personally to ignore.
In SecularTalk’s video responding to the criticism on this episode, Kyle described Vaush as “honest” and says he and Krystal asked all the important critical questions. It is NOT honest to deny material biological reality, which affects women as a class. It is dishonest for Vaush to say that males who identify with feminine stereotypes literally become females, and to encourage his huge audience in believing that females are bigots for wanting to uphold and defend our sex based rights. And I know Kyle doesn’t care about my criticism, but I do think that is a question worth pushing back on.
Force the vote was about policy, political stategy 101, and revealing fraud progressives, not dems per se. Vash is so very very wrong on that. he dems co-op progressives, it was 100% the right course to go. Even in failure, it reveals. Vash had me going until FTV came up...Dominated by bad faith actors in the establishment...talk is cheap, action is what matters
come on Vash, 50/50 on political 101?
Why can’t I see the video? I subbed for a year
Just watched the secular talk video 'Krystal and Saagar's goodbye video PULLED...' and unsubbed from the Hill and joined this substack. Bari Weiss is trash.
I loved this ep. Subscribed to Vaush today, with a set of nudges I would like to press all of the speakers on. You were SPOT ON, Vaush and Kyle, when pointing out that a lack of charity is the problem. However, Vaush, showed a lack of charity in how he dealt with Jimmy Dore. Jimmy does fuck up a lot, but the back and fourth on who is insincere is both not unfounded, while at the same time, we know from human psychology that most people are sincere about the views they claim to have.
Things got heated on force the vote. I think Kyle should have had some convos with Jimmy directly and recorded them because they are the perfect two to speak together on both being charitable while holding people accountable. AOC didn't only drop force the vote. She tweeted that it was a hopeless endeavor and proceeded to do favors for Pelosi. On TYT, Cenk argued that you are a fool to be a part of force the vote and then flipped his position on the general topic right after it was too late, all while claiming that the difference in his views with Jimmy were about the timing, still not explaining what justifies the right timing or not.
Personally, I can be wrong, but I think Cenk is sincerely a fool on that issue and AOC has shown many signs of caving to the pressure of falling in line rather than fighting, so, a fool as well IMHO who has had the time and care to think about her options, but still chose a horrible strategy. UNLESS AOC has a literal gun to her head, she's trying to make psychopathic murderers her friends by caving to their demands at every turn.
Jimmy doesn't strategize much, but his criticism to that effect was valid. If I had a platform, I would pressure AOC to fight harder and I would show her how it's done. She and Cenk both need to be held responsible for their bad decisions. AOC did not say force the vote was a valid idea she disagreed with. She claimed it was a hopeless effort and didn't explain why or how at all. I can parse out that she is effectively selling out by her actions because there is clearly a lot she is not telling us about her thinking, and STILL hold some charity that she could mean well by it in the end. Still yet, I would shame her as I would shame a close friend for not telling us what the fuck she's thinking when she drags her feet on ANY issue.
We don't have any time to waste. Also, Vaush, you don't need to wait for alternative voting to kick in. Tell people to write in "ABSTAIN" for a position when both people running are clear pieces of shit. 1. This will encourage the nonvoters to go to the polls, because they have a choice that suits their views. 2. If enough people do this, then the polls will not be able to write off those votes as crazy people. "Abstain" should already be a required option if this were any reliable study of what the people want. As long as we have a chance to deliver a middle finger to all of the shitty candidates running, more people would vote and more of the true wisdom of the crowd will come out of it.
Something about the way this guy talks that makes me dislike him instantly... seems very full of himself and like he enjoys listening to himself speak 🤮
Just a week ago, I was like: „I hope Krystal will go full indy at some point.“ I congratulate you!
Dialog is good. I favor tolerance over intolerance. I want to hear healthy debate on the left - it's infinitely preferable to the circular firing squad. I want to hear Roland Martin as a guest.
I agree with Vaush 100%. Biden's record is shit but he was and is MILES better for not only the economy but for social issues, the lgbt community, and people of color than Trump. If that's not enough to convince you to vote for him then the political base of the country will just move along without you.
If you have problems with how Biden is running things now, and I have MANY, take heart in knowing that now our criticisms won't be met with "wElL whAt aBouT tRUMp?" and if they are it won't be an effective rebuttal.
Anyone know where to find the video link for this?
Legendary pod. Keep it up!