while i’ll keep my paid subscription cause i love you guys, this will be the first episode i absolutely do not watch. vaush is a 100% bad faith actor who seems to solely exist just to be the human version of the hyper-SJW, virtue-signaling, hypocritical, fart-sniffing strawman fox news loves to pretend the broader left is. will see how m…
while i’ll keep my paid subscription cause i love you guys, this will be the first episode i absolutely do not watch. vaush is a 100% bad faith actor who seems to solely exist just to be the human version of the hyper-SJW, virtue-signaling, hypocritical, fart-sniffing strawman fox news loves to pretend the broader left is. will see how many of his weird 12-year-old cultist followers hop on this post to yell at me for saying this, but yeah, sorry. no fucking thanks.
This will be one of the first episodes I will tune in to. I find Vaush represents a unique millennial view that is often scoffed at and overlooked by main stream media. Very weird you’re obsessed with 12 year olds and farts. 🤷🏻♂️
Can you describe this unique millennial view? Where it came from, what and who it serves etc? As a superannuated Michael Foot-type leftist who thinks "left" has to do with things like labor, class solidarity, economic emancipation and so on, I'm woefully out of touch. I'm interested.
lol I literally came to the comments just to see the super butthurt Krystal Ball stans like you lose your shit that Vaush is on the show. Thank you for not disappointing just remember not to throw too much of temper tantrum when they both end up saying nice things about him. We wouldn’t want you hurting yourself over Internet personalities haha
Did you just preemptively claim victimhood on your own virtue-signaling hypocritical, fart-sniffing strawman post? Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, there is a good-faith misunderstanding happening here. For the record, I agree with Kyle and believe that Vaush stumbled into a use-mention fallacy (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use–mention_distinction). It will be interesting to see if Kyle can help him see it.
no was just letting vaush stans know beforehand (cause i know how this works with them) that they can yell at me all they want and i won’t respond.
also this is about WAY MORE than vaush’s dumbass “critique” of kyle. vaush’s entire track record is BS like this and i’ve seen enough of him (particularly when “debating” other leftists) to know better at this point. he’s a shithead. full stop.
Wait wait. Hold on. Did you just twist another’s objections to virtue signaling by feigning the charge of hypocrisy, thereby also virtue signaling yourself? Cmon. This is ridiculous.
The passive aggressive, tacit thread the cancel your "paid subscription" 😄. Relax bud. You're being more toxic to the discourse in this comments section than anything vaush has ever done/said, and your refusal to even watch the convo validates the caricatures of snowflake leftists that the right talks about all the time to dismiss the left at large, and a lot of people on the fence cringe at having to agree on anything with characters like you.
No one cares you don't like him bro. It'll be a spicy convo either way and that's surely why they're talking.
When was the last time you watched him? I started following him less than 1 year ago, and didn't get that impression at all. I did watch some of his old content, and found it pretty obnoxious, but he's one of the few commentators that addresses his past failures, faults, flaws, and outright fuck-ups. If you haven't seen recent content, you might have your perspective changed.
I pretty much agree with this assessment. My take from watching Vaush is that he is young, passionate, bull-headed, and sees himself as a protector. Vaush instinctually lashes out before statements are completed, leaving him open to critiques of straw-manning. ((However)), he is also honest and brutally self-reflective. He casts full videos attacking his past self. More recently, in his debates, I dare say, he seems constructive in his arguments. A sign that he is not starting from the childish notion that the other participants are of ill intent.
I can take another look; however, I recall Vaush praising Kyle on multiple occasions. No matter the result, I predict this episode will expose far more agreements than disagreements.
Don't bother, I've watched plenty of him and they're just upset he dare challenge people they really like. I've been there myself, but he's been right on wayyy more of his arguments than the opposition has
EVERYTHING vaush does is attention-seeking. watching him debate literally anyone else on the left is painful. he just constantly spews ad-hominem, "gotcha", self-aggrandizing horseshit. i look forward to him reiterating to krystal's face his opinion on how how she (and rising) is a GaTeWaY tO tHe aLt-RiGhT since he's one of the terminally twitter addicted morons who's been loudly humping that bandwagon as well. anything to get himself more clicks and more engagement from the horde of emotionally stunted children who watch him religiously.
I have to agree with you. Sadly most of the time, it's just bad faith takes on an otherwise cogent argument.
I'm hoping that Krystal and Kyle will be able to have a good conversation, because that's what they are good at. But I'm not holding out too much hope for Vaush.
I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised. Or at least that's the hope.
i’ve seen enough of vaush (and his endlessly steamrolling / attacking the people he debates before they’ve even tried to make a point) to just not care enough to watch. he reminds me of so many of the other insular “leftist” LARPers i knew back when i lived in seattle where he does who constantly attack each other and then wonder why bill gates and jeff bezos run everything there. let me know what happens i guess. i just can’t with that guy anymore. krystal and kyle will eventually figure out that he’s not worth the time of day.
This is perhaps the one valid criticism I've seen, even if I don't agree 100%. I agree with Vaush that at times there's a value to going hard on certain interlocutors, especially when those people are themselves bad faith. The mere optics of being rhetorically body slammed WORKS when it comes to convincing people on the right that their faux intellectual demagogue is completely full of shit.
Yes, at times Vaush has gone overboard on people who, if not certainly, then at least seemingly do not bring it on themselves. But he gets called out on it by his own community, and he has spoken multiple times about his own self-awareness of this fact. He has gotten better over time, is all I really have to say about it in the end.
None of your other criticisms are worth a damn, but this one is at least somewhat fair in my opinion lmao
You really don't like him do you? Like Jesus dude, you're commenting on everyone's stuff hate bashing him. What's any of the most recent content you've watched of his?
I agree with all both of you said, but I will watch it too.
Mostly cos, his own channel is absolutely unwatchable trash.
And yes, Lars, brace yourself for army of his 12-year-old self-proclaimed 'Marxist-Leninist' cultist followers! :D
As for a 'surprise': it's possible.
It did surprise me already that for most of his interview with Hakim, I did not have such a strong desire to smack him in the face, as I usually do.. :D
His stuff is actually pretty good. I watch him, pakman, Kyle and everyone else. He has some bad opinions on things but often grows to challenge those opinions like us.
Oh, I'm very familiar with his latest 'transformation' into market / liberal socialist, which is pretty much an ideology in which I'm raised, but I still think that his followers are the cult of trendy privileged lil brats (same as he is). ;)
Yet, credit where credit is due: let's see what he has to say!
@Joselito Duric Lol what are you talking about? Vaush has been a market socialist/libertarian socialist the entire time he’s made videos . That’s always been his position LOL
So wait, between being just a lazy gamer and 'enlightened' libertarian socialist (so: year and a half ago), wasn't he calling himself a 'Marxist-Leninist'?
It's hard to follow what you guys call yourselves while you're streaming a game, pleasuring each other and trolling everyone else.. :D
No . He never called himself that. He fucking comes after MLs all the fucking time and never held that position since he started making videos years ago. You obviously don’t listen to anything he actually says and just straw man and listen to dumb fucks talk shit about him instead of actually hearing what he says. And I guarantee I work harder than you’ve ever worked in your life , I’m a landscaper you stupid fuck. Just because I appreciate modern gaming doesn’t mean I’m lazy you stupid piece of garbage . How about you actually listen to people instead of straw Manning and smearing them . Maybe you’ll actually learn something
To set this straight: I did not call you lazy, nor I have clue what you do for living. I called him that. And no matter what he claims his ideology is, he is herding you into his cult of personality, which is most contradictory to libertarian socialism. One day you might learn that, if you pull your head out of his ass...
You absolutely called me lazy. You said “lazy gamer” as in anyone that enjoys playing video games is somehow lazy. Ridiculous nonsense . And no, he isn’t “herding” anyone into cult of personality . I like Vaush because he makes right wingers look and feel unbelievably stupid and because I agree with the policy prescriptions he supports and his ideology. If he changed his opinions and ideology I wouldn’t change because Vaush did . That’s what a cult of personality is which isn’t even close to what Vaush and his community is. He gets challenged by his own community all the time. You’ve clearly just listened to like 3 clipped videos of him and jumped to conclusions based on what others have said about him which tells me everything I need to know about your intellectual honesty 👍🏼
Sorry buddy, I have no time to listen to his ranting for hours (I've heard more than enough of it). Someone has to make these games that you guys are playing..
And as I said: I will watch this interview, and (try to) objectively asset his political positions and 'intellectual honestly'.
But 'stay in touch' and let me know if you need a help with ideological realignment once all the zeal and cultism is gone, OK?
Incorrect Vaush nor his fans "proclaim themselves to be Marxist-Leninist", if you make a critique of someone it would help to know the most basic information about them. "I'm very familiar with his latest 'transformation' into market / liberal socialist, which is pretty much an ideology in which I'm raised" this statement has too many holes in it to count, so onto another "I did not have such a strong desire to smack him in the face, as I usually do.. :D" ah very intelligent wanting to commit violence against someone who disagrees with you politically. I mean I could just quote more dumb things you've said but I think we can conclude from this you have major case VDS seek medical attention soon.
Depending when someone tunes in he could sound pithy and smug, which, I'm sure, once reacting to vaush like chewing tinfoil they'd tune out in five minutes and affirm themselves that next time they really will let their gut opinions lead the way and not listen to those dumb cultist followers.
Whats the worst that happens if you hear this conversation? Either you get proven correct or reconsider some things. I don't see any upside to keeping yourself in the dark. Having strong opinions is great but you need to do the homework first.
Your loss, he aint as awful as you think- I mean he's been a dipshit in the past and loses his cool from time to time, but I tend to take people as they are in the moment, and he's generally a pretty intelligent dude with a good way of describing some concepts.
vaush is A LOT more abrasive and assholish than shoe and has a history of targeting both krystal and kyle directly with his horseshit, so... we'll see about that, i guess. not that i'll be watching, but i'd be genuinely surprised if vaush doesn't lead with some shit like "so krystal, why are you literally a nazi trying to convert leftists to saager's point of view? now let me proceed to talk over you and insult you for the next 45 minutes without actually letting you respond to this accusation i've just pulled directly out of my ass like i do everything else i claim to believe."
I never watched Vaush before, but I think it was a good video. I do think a lot of his followers seem to be toxic and just like I've seen with Jimmy Dore Fans. I also don't like Jimmy, but I won't write him off as dishonest. Jimmy can be vitriol and I could see Vaush also being as well so I can see you not wanting to watch him.
Those of us on the left do need to find a way work together and I feel like the die hard followers of Vausch n some others makes it near impossible. Keep fighting and I am glad you stuck around regardless.
while i’ll keep my paid subscription cause i love you guys, this will be the first episode i absolutely do not watch. vaush is a 100% bad faith actor who seems to solely exist just to be the human version of the hyper-SJW, virtue-signaling, hypocritical, fart-sniffing strawman fox news loves to pretend the broader left is. will see how many of his weird 12-year-old cultist followers hop on this post to yell at me for saying this, but yeah, sorry. no fucking thanks.
This will be one of the first episodes I will tune in to. I find Vaush represents a unique millennial view that is often scoffed at and overlooked by main stream media. Very weird you’re obsessed with 12 year olds and farts. 🤷🏻♂️
Can you describe this unique millennial view? Where it came from, what and who it serves etc? As a superannuated Michael Foot-type leftist who thinks "left" has to do with things like labor, class solidarity, economic emancipation and so on, I'm woefully out of touch. I'm interested.
Literally just subscribed to see this. An actual interesting conversation.
Yep, me too. New subscriber BECAUSE of Vaush who is an incredible debater IMO
This will be the first one I watch.
lol I literally came to the comments just to see the super butthurt Krystal Ball stans like you lose your shit that Vaush is on the show. Thank you for not disappointing just remember not to throw too much of temper tantrum when they both end up saying nice things about him. We wouldn’t want you hurting yourself over Internet personalities haha
why krystal's fans? prob kyles stans tbh lol
They both already like Vaush or they wouldn't have invited him on.
Did you just preemptively claim victimhood on your own virtue-signaling hypocritical, fart-sniffing strawman post? Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, there is a good-faith misunderstanding happening here. For the record, I agree with Kyle and believe that Vaush stumbled into a use-mention fallacy (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use–mention_distinction). It will be interesting to see if Kyle can help him see it.
no was just letting vaush stans know beforehand (cause i know how this works with them) that they can yell at me all they want and i won’t respond.
also this is about WAY MORE than vaush’s dumbass “critique” of kyle. vaush’s entire track record is BS like this and i’ve seen enough of him (particularly when “debating” other leftists) to know better at this point. he’s a shithead. full stop.
You’ve responded a bunch already and the video hasn’t even dropped lol
I enjoyed seeing you seethe all throughout this thread, ty
This guy has a serious case of VDS.
Wait wait. Hold on. Did you just twist another’s objections to virtue signaling by feigning the charge of hypocrisy, thereby also virtue signaling yourself? Cmon. This is ridiculous.
The passive aggressive, tacit thread the cancel your "paid subscription" 😄. Relax bud. You're being more toxic to the discourse in this comments section than anything vaush has ever done/said, and your refusal to even watch the convo validates the caricatures of snowflake leftists that the right talks about all the time to dismiss the left at large, and a lot of people on the fence cringe at having to agree on anything with characters like you.
No one cares you don't like him bro. It'll be a spicy convo either way and that's surely why they're talking.
When was the last time you watched him? I started following him less than 1 year ago, and didn't get that impression at all. I did watch some of his old content, and found it pretty obnoxious, but he's one of the few commentators that addresses his past failures, faults, flaws, and outright fuck-ups. If you haven't seen recent content, you might have your perspective changed.
I pretty much agree with this assessment. My take from watching Vaush is that he is young, passionate, bull-headed, and sees himself as a protector. Vaush instinctually lashes out before statements are completed, leaving him open to critiques of straw-manning. ((However)), he is also honest and brutally self-reflective. He casts full videos attacking his past self. More recently, in his debates, I dare say, he seems constructive in his arguments. A sign that he is not starting from the childish notion that the other participants are of ill intent.
Vaush's comments about Kyle seemed to be more about attention seeking than genuine concern. Disappointed to see Kyle is humoring the toddler behavior.
I can take another look; however, I recall Vaush praising Kyle on multiple occasions. No matter the result, I predict this episode will expose far more agreements than disagreements.
Don't bother, I've watched plenty of him and they're just upset he dare challenge people they really like. I've been there myself, but he's been right on wayyy more of his arguments than the opposition has
EVERYTHING vaush does is attention-seeking. watching him debate literally anyone else on the left is painful. he just constantly spews ad-hominem, "gotcha", self-aggrandizing horseshit. i look forward to him reiterating to krystal's face his opinion on how how she (and rising) is a GaTeWaY tO tHe aLt-RiGhT since he's one of the terminally twitter addicted morons who's been loudly humping that bandwagon as well. anything to get himself more clicks and more engagement from the horde of emotionally stunted children who watch him religiously.
I have to agree with you. Sadly most of the time, it's just bad faith takes on an otherwise cogent argument.
I'm hoping that Krystal and Kyle will be able to have a good conversation, because that's what they are good at. But I'm not holding out too much hope for Vaush.
I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised. Or at least that's the hope.
i’ve seen enough of vaush (and his endlessly steamrolling / attacking the people he debates before they’ve even tried to make a point) to just not care enough to watch. he reminds me of so many of the other insular “leftist” LARPers i knew back when i lived in seattle where he does who constantly attack each other and then wonder why bill gates and jeff bezos run everything there. let me know what happens i guess. i just can’t with that guy anymore. krystal and kyle will eventually figure out that he’s not worth the time of day.
This is perhaps the one valid criticism I've seen, even if I don't agree 100%. I agree with Vaush that at times there's a value to going hard on certain interlocutors, especially when those people are themselves bad faith. The mere optics of being rhetorically body slammed WORKS when it comes to convincing people on the right that their faux intellectual demagogue is completely full of shit.
Yes, at times Vaush has gone overboard on people who, if not certainly, then at least seemingly do not bring it on themselves. But he gets called out on it by his own community, and he has spoken multiple times about his own self-awareness of this fact. He has gotten better over time, is all I really have to say about it in the end.
None of your other criticisms are worth a damn, but this one is at least somewhat fair in my opinion lmao
You really don't like him do you? Like Jesus dude, you're commenting on everyone's stuff hate bashing him. What's any of the most recent content you've watched of his?
I agree with all both of you said, but I will watch it too.
Mostly cos, his own channel is absolutely unwatchable trash.
And yes, Lars, brace yourself for army of his 12-year-old self-proclaimed 'Marxist-Leninist' cultist followers! :D
As for a 'surprise': it's possible.
It did surprise me already that for most of his interview with Hakim, I did not have such a strong desire to smack him in the face, as I usually do.. :D
You obviously aren't familiar with (at least the current) Vaush content... He is pretty much the opposite of a Marxist Leninist...
His stuff is actually pretty good. I watch him, pakman, Kyle and everyone else. He has some bad opinions on things but often grows to challenge those opinions like us.
woooooo a nuanced opinion snuck in under the reactionist radar. Tip of the hat Matt.
Oh, I'm very familiar with his latest 'transformation' into market / liberal socialist, which is pretty much an ideology in which I'm raised, but I still think that his followers are the cult of trendy privileged lil brats (same as he is). ;)
Yet, credit where credit is due: let's see what he has to say!
@Joselito Duric Lol what are you talking about? Vaush has been a market socialist/libertarian socialist the entire time he’s made videos . That’s always been his position LOL
So wait, between being just a lazy gamer and 'enlightened' libertarian socialist (so: year and a half ago), wasn't he calling himself a 'Marxist-Leninist'?
It's hard to follow what you guys call yourselves while you're streaming a game, pleasuring each other and trolling everyone else.. :D
No . He never called himself that. He fucking comes after MLs all the fucking time and never held that position since he started making videos years ago. You obviously don’t listen to anything he actually says and just straw man and listen to dumb fucks talk shit about him instead of actually hearing what he says. And I guarantee I work harder than you’ve ever worked in your life , I’m a landscaper you stupid fuck. Just because I appreciate modern gaming doesn’t mean I’m lazy you stupid piece of garbage . How about you actually listen to people instead of straw Manning and smearing them . Maybe you’ll actually learn something
To set this straight: I did not call you lazy, nor I have clue what you do for living. I called him that. And no matter what he claims his ideology is, he is herding you into his cult of personality, which is most contradictory to libertarian socialism. One day you might learn that, if you pull your head out of his ass...
You absolutely called me lazy. You said “lazy gamer” as in anyone that enjoys playing video games is somehow lazy. Ridiculous nonsense . And no, he isn’t “herding” anyone into cult of personality . I like Vaush because he makes right wingers look and feel unbelievably stupid and because I agree with the policy prescriptions he supports and his ideology. If he changed his opinions and ideology I wouldn’t change because Vaush did . That’s what a cult of personality is which isn’t even close to what Vaush and his community is. He gets challenged by his own community all the time. You’ve clearly just listened to like 3 clipped videos of him and jumped to conclusions based on what others have said about him which tells me everything I need to know about your intellectual honesty 👍🏼
Sorry buddy, I have no time to listen to his ranting for hours (I've heard more than enough of it). Someone has to make these games that you guys are playing..
And as I said: I will watch this interview, and (try to) objectively asset his political positions and 'intellectual honestly'.
But 'stay in touch' and let me know if you need a help with ideological realignment once all the zeal and cultism is gone, OK?
There's a cult of personality that surrounds Marx and Lenin too.
It's like every new criticism you pull out of your ass is even more shallow and vague than the last.
Incorrect Vaush nor his fans "proclaim themselves to be Marxist-Leninist", if you make a critique of someone it would help to know the most basic information about them. "I'm very familiar with his latest 'transformation' into market / liberal socialist, which is pretty much an ideology in which I'm raised" this statement has too many holes in it to count, so onto another "I did not have such a strong desire to smack him in the face, as I usually do.. :D" ah very intelligent wanting to commit violence against someone who disagrees with you politically. I mean I could just quote more dumb things you've said but I think we can conclude from this you have major case VDS seek medical attention soon.
Monitors must cost you millions! ^_^
🤫 My company is providing them for WFH.. 😁
😂 That's perfect!
Lmao, just actually watch one of his streams instead of watching out-of-context clips on twitter and maybe you'd form a different opinon.
Depending when someone tunes in he could sound pithy and smug, which, I'm sure, once reacting to vaush like chewing tinfoil they'd tune out in five minutes and affirm themselves that next time they really will let their gut opinions lead the way and not listen to those dumb cultist followers.
Worth watching. I'd recommend.
k boomer
Whats the worst that happens if you hear this conversation? Either you get proven correct or reconsider some things. I don't see any upside to keeping yourself in the dark. Having strong opinions is great but you need to do the homework first.
lmao embarrassing
Your loss, he aint as awful as you think- I mean he's been a dipshit in the past and loses his cool from time to time, but I tend to take people as they are in the moment, and he's generally a pretty intelligent dude with a good way of describing some concepts.
I doubt they'll press him on controversial issues. The went extremely easy on Shoe.
vaush is A LOT more abrasive and assholish than shoe and has a history of targeting both krystal and kyle directly with his horseshit, so... we'll see about that, i guess. not that i'll be watching, but i'd be genuinely surprised if vaush doesn't lead with some shit like "so krystal, why are you literally a nazi trying to convert leftists to saager's point of view? now let me proceed to talk over you and insult you for the next 45 minutes without actually letting you respond to this accusation i've just pulled directly out of my ass like i do everything else i claim to believe."
I never watched Vaush before, but I think it was a good video. I do think a lot of his followers seem to be toxic and just like I've seen with Jimmy Dore Fans. I also don't like Jimmy, but I won't write him off as dishonest. Jimmy can be vitriol and I could see Vaush also being as well so I can see you not wanting to watch him.
Those of us on the left do need to find a way work together and I feel like the die hard followers of Vausch n some others makes it near impossible. Keep fighting and I am glad you stuck around regardless.