This comment section is literally why we can't have nice things on the left. This is why we will get steamrolled in 2022 and 2024. The lefts inter battle, gatekeeping and having to meet 💯 purity test. Whether you like Krystal, Kyle and Vaush or not you have to come to the end conclusion that they are all on the same team and generally moving the left platform ahead.
The online left / Twitter left is the most toxic community in politics.
so far, the top comments are all saying this exact statement, so don't let the perceived toxicity make you think that it's in any way as substantial as it seems like.
It's a highly excited group of haters who put their soul into it, versus a massive plurality of cool headed, good world wanting rational people, and the former focuses on their commentary like it was their job to hate on people allot more than we diligently look for every opportunity to be accepting and thoughtful. It's also a lot easier to be toxic than thoughtful, it's just there are people who preach for thoughtful toxicity out there rallying people up into mobs because it's one of the most competitive outlets out there.
no, the point you're making isn't an actual point. the people on the left in america actually working towards progress and actionable change are those in the streets and in the activist sphere out in the world, off of the internet, actually *doing* shit - not bad faith egoist pundits like vaush or his legion of 12-year-old hyperfans who all just sit online all in their basements all day while constantly yelling at or congratulating each other in their *tiny* bubble, feeding social media engagement algorithms designed to keep them doing this shit, and then pretending this is somehow activism or actually accomplishing anything. the idea that the terminally online "left" is the reason the broader american left will either get steamrolled *or* win - or effect literally anything whatsoever politically - is a total fallacy in the first place. the terminally online "left" is doing jack and shit and barely a blip on the actual political radar because sitting on twitter (again, a site that literally has less than 5% of the actual population on it) all day isn't a fucking political movement. the broader left that's actually *off* of twitter, and outside that bubble trying to change peoples' minds and accomplish shit are the future and the actual gage of where we're headed and who gets steamrolled vs who wins. vaush et al do not even factor into nor effect the equation one way or another - they're fucking meaningless noise online LARPers doing literally nothing while convincing themselves they're infinitely more important than they are. more leftists need to start reading jaron lanier and getting off of fucking twitter.
You've been all over this comment section frothing at the mouth, spewing your "opinions" of Vaush. We get it bro, you don't like the guy. It's fine.
But it seems he lives rent free in your head. The interview is not out yet and you can't seem to get off this comment section telling everyone about your hate boner.
Do you have Vaush’s YouTube demographics on hand? Are these facts or are u literally just talking out of your ass? I think it’s the latter. Vaush is reaching Gen Z with big progressive ideas. That’s important work. We should applaud that work no shit on the guy doing it. Do you have any idea how many young kids get sucked down the alt right pipeline on YouTube? I bet you don’t have a clue about the algorithms and how if I watch 1 video of an edgy comedian I’m 3 clicks away from Tucker Carlson and Steven Crowder being crammed in to my suggestions fir the next month. The internet alt right pipeline is poisoning the minds of our youth and people like Vaush are educating them on political science, advocacy, criminal justice, economic reform, and all kinds of other wonderful things. If you don’t see value in that I can’t help you.
Yes thank you for this comment. Agree whole heartedly. We have Kyle and Vaush two widly popular leftist YouTube stars who agree in principle about almost every major political issue and yet every wants to bash Vaush for some reason beyond my comprehension. Why don’t we support people who push our agenda forward? No we sit here trying to find ways to tear them down and nitpick. I see Vaush simps doing the same shit to Kyle on the other side. It’s insanity.
Given that applies to any section of the left right now since last year, nah i think it'll be a lack of leadership and direction that gets us "steamrolled" the problem is lack of leadership going on. Along with too many people being willing to throw people under the bus.
> Vaush - obese slob rich off daddy's trust fund, corporate neolib shill LARPing as a revolutionary, "sees no reason why cp shouldn't be legal"
> shoeonhead - former antifeminist "skeptic" turned SJW, changes political opinions faster than she changes wigs, no principles or genuine beliefs besides pandering to her MRA audience
lmao try again. Why don't you go take a look into IrishLaddie's background and tell me what I'm wrong about, his privileged Beverly Hills upbringing or his literal defending of child porn
1. It doesnt matter where he grew up. What type of bigoted bullshit is that?
2. The fact that you believe he defends CP proves you dont have a clue what you're talking about. Vaush didnt defend CP. He was using it as an overall comparison to argue that Child Sweat Shops should be as taboo as CP. And he was right. It was like an hour long debate and you apperently only watched a 5 min clip taken out of context.
Like legitmately the pedo accusation is the #1 way you can tell if a Vaush hater is in bad faith. Cause anybody who argues in any good faith would have tried to see the whole clip. He legitmately denounces CP like 3 times during the whole damn video
Tongue-in-cheek comparison aside it was still a pretty dumb delivery. Trying to say CP is OK under any circumstances would never be done by anyone who isn't being incredibly stupid or possibly partakes or thinks about doing it themselves. He's supposed to be this iconic pseudo-intellectual debater so the former option certainly cannot exist!
What does that have to do with his policy positions and whether or not they're good?
> defending of child porn
This is when I have to start wondering if you're trolling or stupid. That smear was debunked ages ago. You have no idea what you're talking about, or you're baiting.
Exactly. You can always tell legit critics of Vaush from trolls with VDS based on if they try to use the CP argument.
Anyone who saw the whole discussion would know he didnt actually defend CP. Its only reactionaries who base all their opinions off twitter posts who are stupid enough to try and argue that point
Subscribed exclusively for this. The Vaush hate from other leftists is generally so deranged and fact free (in many ways comparable to the how the worst shitlibs used to treat what they called “bernie bros”). It’s so dumb.
Krystal and Kyle, who I both fundamentally like, went too far off the rails for me during FTV, I hope this redeems them a bit.
That’s quite confused. The fact that Vaush is not an academic or an established intellectual, like Chomsky, Wolff, and Cornel West, does not in any way address the fact that the hatred against Vaush is deranged and fact free.
Do I want to pay to hear Chomsky, Wolff, and Cornel West being interviewed by fairly shallow non-academics for the nth time? Not really.
Why pay to see Vaush here then? Well he is, like all these leftists media figures, important for how he impacts regular people and helps nudge the overton wind, not because he is some leading intellectual academically speaking. Vaush is a fantastic new voice in this sense, that also sharpens this leftist media space in his own ways.
And the meeting of Vaush and Krystal and Kyle is about a kind of symbolic healing of a sad rift in the left, post Bernie/Biden elections and especially FTV. This interview is symbolically very interesting for such reasons.
I am not personally interested in who Krystal and Kyle interviews next. But I would like to see Vaush talk to Chomsky about their shared opinion that FTV is deeply idiotic.
Also, putting Chomsky, Wolff, and Cornell West in the same sentence like that with Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi means you are not a very serious person.
Well I did not put them in 'same sentence', Krystal and Kyle did, as these were some of the most known people they had on the show. So credit them for that..
As for you not being interested to see ANYONE but Vaush.
Yeah, that doesn't sound as close-minded sycophantic cultism at all..
All of us have our own reasons for winding up here. I'll watch Vaush now and then. I found him and a few other youtubers while I was wasting my time enjoying retirement.
Back in the day I leaned pretty heavily conservatively. Probably because I was active duty and that's a pretty right leaning community. It wasn't until a few years before I retired not long after the 2016 election when I started to slowly wake up. I started watching other news channels. More local and national. Less cable. I used to LOVE going down YouTube's algorithm rabbit hole of "I wonder what kind of crazy alien, flat-earth, conspiracy stuff" next.
I don't know how it happened but somehow I got directed to Tim Pool's channel and it snapped me the hell out of it. One of the easiest things I've done was click the little "never recommend this channel" button for him. I ran into a couple other right wingy channels that I had to dig myself out of.
It was channels like Vaush's that helped pull me out of it. There was a pretty cool guy that dressed up like a corn cob. Serfs and pals, Pakman, Kyle here too. They ALL helped get me to a MUCH better place.
I NEVER listened to Chomsky up until a couple months ago. I didn't know who Wolff was until he hung out with Serfs and Destiny. Honestly, a few years ago I couldn't have cared less. Now I'm a sponge again and eager to listen, learn, and help out as much as I can. I can only hope it's not too late.
I can't talk for most any of these people, but if they're anything like me and are here because they genuinely want to learn why should it matter what brought them here?
If you've got ANYONE that I need to go listen to or read about please let me know! I've got plenty of time on my hands and I'll be darned if I let video games take up all that time! :D
I personally would want to see interview with Michael Parenti more than anything.
He's very old and has not given interview in years.
As for who to watch, if we stay on topic of worker co-ops there is really only Richard Wolff, though he has multiple shows on his channel, and one of them is specifically about worker co-ops. I don't know if there is anything else in English. But if you want to dive deeper in that subjects you should look for books by Branko Horvat.
On libertarian socialism:
Beside Chomsky, Cornel and Parenti, there was David Graeber, who unfortunately died last year, same as Michael Brooks. Graeber came with the slogan 'We are the 99%'. I also think Chris Hedges is very much a libertarian socialist.
In Europe, there is DiEM25: Yanis Varoufakis & Srecko Horvat, they bring lot of international guests. And then, of course, there is Slavoj Zizek, who calls himself whatever.. and says lot of other crazy stuff, but I would put him in same category.
I ran into Mr Cody when Jim from The Office started his Some Good News show. YouTube algorithmed my right into his episode about Jim spoofing his spoof news show. I used to be a sarcastic asshole, so I immediately connected to Cody as if we were each other's spirit animal or something.
Noam's a good time where we all agree for a very long and drawnout way that doesn't necessarily bring something new to the table. Richard Wolff's brilliant, if, opinionated yet only powerful if the debate is very heavily economics based, and, that's only part of it in the modern culture war. Cornel West's a powerhouse, not above the fray so much as enlightened to the important things, yet, again, well known older commentator who's known less for sticking it to the new aged cultural issues than for brining home the message for the longstanding, cross-spectrum American. Greenwald, quite compelling based legal know-how, broke stories, etc, ect.
Vaush is a contemporary social studies autist who's spent more hours than the rest of the cast combined dealing particularly in the heavily modern streamed debate format. He's forged something that could be considered a reality talk show who's entire contingent is on discourse of ideas, often times with people well beyond the pale. It's allot of contrast and it's a modern group phenomenon that's very worth attending to. Guy's been at it, what, 3 years? Give him 20 to 30 more and there's qute the likelihood that he has more comparable clout to your tastes.
Personally I'd like Cody of Some More News, but, then again, like many people who'd have tuned in while we got to this episode, I like fresh faces, dramatists, artists, and performers who are still building their recognition, who's clout comes from their attempted application in the face of powerlessness, not just established, longstanding positions where they've formerly affected things somewhat.
while i’ll keep my paid subscription cause i love you guys, this will be the first episode i absolutely do not watch. vaush is a 100% bad faith actor who seems to solely exist just to be the human version of the hyper-SJW, virtue-signaling, hypocritical, fart-sniffing strawman fox news loves to pretend the broader left is. will see how many of his weird 12-year-old cultist followers hop on this post to yell at me for saying this, but yeah, sorry. no fucking thanks.
This will be one of the first episodes I will tune in to. I find Vaush represents a unique millennial view that is often scoffed at and overlooked by main stream media. Very weird you’re obsessed with 12 year olds and farts. 🤷🏻♂️
Can you describe this unique millennial view? Where it came from, what and who it serves etc? As a superannuated Michael Foot-type leftist who thinks "left" has to do with things like labor, class solidarity, economic emancipation and so on, I'm woefully out of touch. I'm interested.
lol I literally came to the comments just to see the super butthurt Krystal Ball stans like you lose your shit that Vaush is on the show. Thank you for not disappointing just remember not to throw too much of temper tantrum when they both end up saying nice things about him. We wouldn’t want you hurting yourself over Internet personalities haha
Did you just preemptively claim victimhood on your own virtue-signaling hypocritical, fart-sniffing strawman post? Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, there is a good-faith misunderstanding happening here. For the record, I agree with Kyle and believe that Vaush stumbled into a use-mention fallacy (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use–mention_distinction). It will be interesting to see if Kyle can help him see it.
no was just letting vaush stans know beforehand (cause i know how this works with them) that they can yell at me all they want and i won’t respond.
also this is about WAY MORE than vaush’s dumbass “critique” of kyle. vaush’s entire track record is BS like this and i’ve seen enough of him (particularly when “debating” other leftists) to know better at this point. he’s a shithead. full stop.
Wait wait. Hold on. Did you just twist another’s objections to virtue signaling by feigning the charge of hypocrisy, thereby also virtue signaling yourself? Cmon. This is ridiculous.
The passive aggressive, tacit thread the cancel your "paid subscription" 😄. Relax bud. You're being more toxic to the discourse in this comments section than anything vaush has ever done/said, and your refusal to even watch the convo validates the caricatures of snowflake leftists that the right talks about all the time to dismiss the left at large, and a lot of people on the fence cringe at having to agree on anything with characters like you.
No one cares you don't like him bro. It'll be a spicy convo either way and that's surely why they're talking.
When was the last time you watched him? I started following him less than 1 year ago, and didn't get that impression at all. I did watch some of his old content, and found it pretty obnoxious, but he's one of the few commentators that addresses his past failures, faults, flaws, and outright fuck-ups. If you haven't seen recent content, you might have your perspective changed.
I pretty much agree with this assessment. My take from watching Vaush is that he is young, passionate, bull-headed, and sees himself as a protector. Vaush instinctually lashes out before statements are completed, leaving him open to critiques of straw-manning. ((However)), he is also honest and brutally self-reflective. He casts full videos attacking his past self. More recently, in his debates, I dare say, he seems constructive in his arguments. A sign that he is not starting from the childish notion that the other participants are of ill intent.
I can take another look; however, I recall Vaush praising Kyle on multiple occasions. No matter the result, I predict this episode will expose far more agreements than disagreements.
Don't bother, I've watched plenty of him and they're just upset he dare challenge people they really like. I've been there myself, but he's been right on wayyy more of his arguments than the opposition has
EVERYTHING vaush does is attention-seeking. watching him debate literally anyone else on the left is painful. he just constantly spews ad-hominem, "gotcha", self-aggrandizing horseshit. i look forward to him reiterating to krystal's face his opinion on how how she (and rising) is a GaTeWaY tO tHe aLt-RiGhT since he's one of the terminally twitter addicted morons who's been loudly humping that bandwagon as well. anything to get himself more clicks and more engagement from the horde of emotionally stunted children who watch him religiously.
I have to agree with you. Sadly most of the time, it's just bad faith takes on an otherwise cogent argument.
I'm hoping that Krystal and Kyle will be able to have a good conversation, because that's what they are good at. But I'm not holding out too much hope for Vaush.
I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised. Or at least that's the hope.
i’ve seen enough of vaush (and his endlessly steamrolling / attacking the people he debates before they’ve even tried to make a point) to just not care enough to watch. he reminds me of so many of the other insular “leftist” LARPers i knew back when i lived in seattle where he does who constantly attack each other and then wonder why bill gates and jeff bezos run everything there. let me know what happens i guess. i just can’t with that guy anymore. krystal and kyle will eventually figure out that he’s not worth the time of day.
This is perhaps the one valid criticism I've seen, even if I don't agree 100%. I agree with Vaush that at times there's a value to going hard on certain interlocutors, especially when those people are themselves bad faith. The mere optics of being rhetorically body slammed WORKS when it comes to convincing people on the right that their faux intellectual demagogue is completely full of shit.
Yes, at times Vaush has gone overboard on people who, if not certainly, then at least seemingly do not bring it on themselves. But he gets called out on it by his own community, and he has spoken multiple times about his own self-awareness of this fact. He has gotten better over time, is all I really have to say about it in the end.
None of your other criticisms are worth a damn, but this one is at least somewhat fair in my opinion lmao
You really don't like him do you? Like Jesus dude, you're commenting on everyone's stuff hate bashing him. What's any of the most recent content you've watched of his?
I agree with all both of you said, but I will watch it too.
Mostly cos, his own channel is absolutely unwatchable trash.
And yes, Lars, brace yourself for army of his 12-year-old self-proclaimed 'Marxist-Leninist' cultist followers! :D
As for a 'surprise': it's possible.
It did surprise me already that for most of his interview with Hakim, I did not have such a strong desire to smack him in the face, as I usually do.. :D
His stuff is actually pretty good. I watch him, pakman, Kyle and everyone else. He has some bad opinions on things but often grows to challenge those opinions like us.
Oh, I'm very familiar with his latest 'transformation' into market / liberal socialist, which is pretty much an ideology in which I'm raised, but I still think that his followers are the cult of trendy privileged lil brats (same as he is). ;)
Yet, credit where credit is due: let's see what he has to say!
@Joselito Duric Lol what are you talking about? Vaush has been a market socialist/libertarian socialist the entire time he’s made videos . That’s always been his position LOL
So wait, between being just a lazy gamer and 'enlightened' libertarian socialist (so: year and a half ago), wasn't he calling himself a 'Marxist-Leninist'?
It's hard to follow what you guys call yourselves while you're streaming a game, pleasuring each other and trolling everyone else.. :D
Incorrect Vaush nor his fans "proclaim themselves to be Marxist-Leninist", if you make a critique of someone it would help to know the most basic information about them. "I'm very familiar with his latest 'transformation' into market / liberal socialist, which is pretty much an ideology in which I'm raised" this statement has too many holes in it to count, so onto another "I did not have such a strong desire to smack him in the face, as I usually do.. :D" ah very intelligent wanting to commit violence against someone who disagrees with you politically. I mean I could just quote more dumb things you've said but I think we can conclude from this you have major case VDS seek medical attention soon.
Depending when someone tunes in he could sound pithy and smug, which, I'm sure, once reacting to vaush like chewing tinfoil they'd tune out in five minutes and affirm themselves that next time they really will let their gut opinions lead the way and not listen to those dumb cultist followers.
Whats the worst that happens if you hear this conversation? Either you get proven correct or reconsider some things. I don't see any upside to keeping yourself in the dark. Having strong opinions is great but you need to do the homework first.
Your loss, he aint as awful as you think- I mean he's been a dipshit in the past and loses his cool from time to time, but I tend to take people as they are in the moment, and he's generally a pretty intelligent dude with a good way of describing some concepts.
vaush is A LOT more abrasive and assholish than shoe and has a history of targeting both krystal and kyle directly with his horseshit, so... we'll see about that, i guess. not that i'll be watching, but i'd be genuinely surprised if vaush doesn't lead with some shit like "so krystal, why are you literally a nazi trying to convert leftists to saager's point of view? now let me proceed to talk over you and insult you for the next 45 minutes without actually letting you respond to this accusation i've just pulled directly out of my ass like i do everything else i claim to believe."
I never watched Vaush before, but I think it was a good video. I do think a lot of his followers seem to be toxic and just like I've seen with Jimmy Dore Fans. I also don't like Jimmy, but I won't write him off as dishonest. Jimmy can be vitriol and I could see Vaush also being as well so I can see you not wanting to watch him.
Those of us on the left do need to find a way work together and I feel like the die hard followers of Vausch n some others makes it near impossible. Keep fighting and I am glad you stuck around regardless.
Very excited for this episode! Vaush is a great streamer. Sometimes he makes mistakes and will more than willing to correct himself. He has been critical of both Kyle and Krystal but he means it all in good faith. It will not be a shit storm. Relax all you haters. Give Vaush this one listen. It's an INTERVIEW! not a debate!
Laughing at all the people mad about this interview. It's funny that they have no problem with krystal partnering with a right-winger with a ghoulish worldview completely antithetical to their supposed socialist worldview. LOL these people are jokes. There are plenty of things to critique vaush about, because most human beings have flaws. All in all he is a net good to the left. The same goes for krystal even though I disagree with her editorial and a narrative choices on occasion.
Man this guy is fantastic. Best guest they've had so far. Too bad your too lost in your own negativity to understand positive arguments. Too bad, I'm sure you'll figure it out eventually. Just. Takes some people longer than others 😃
i feel like half the comments in here are newly subscribed vaush fan boys, this one included
I found the conversation to be entertaining but let's face it Vaush who puts owning people and being the first to come up with an idea above doing the right thing. A grifter for sure but whatever keeps the yung'uns entertained as they grow up... glad the left has its own pro "debate bros" with fragile egos!
100%. i love kyle but there are a few areas where he is truly a dupe, and he's definitely been duped by vaush. oh well... he'll figure shit out eventually.
you're a strange guy. Most people would decide to not watch something and move on but you seem to be running up and down this comment section with the sole purpose of poisoning the well?
yea. Shapiro of the left. He's got a bunch of kids fooled tho because he talks fast. But he's kind of a kid too, and most people don't take him seriously so its whatever.
If there's ONE reason I'll listen to someone it's because they're speaking at a speed I can comprehend. I hate having to listen to someone on half speed.
I've never watched vaush and I try (often unsuccessfully) to avoid Twitter, so I don't really have an opinion either way. It's just sad to see strangers being this vicious to each other over an internet personality.
Sure, man. Nobody else here is saying anything vicious. Like, I dunno, falsely accusing Vaush of being a pedophile, or being condescending to his fans or undermining the validity of his ability to affect change or presuming (falsely) that he has done no actual real world praxis.
No big deal though, nothing vicious about any of that.
Uniting the left is an unhelpful framing, in my view. The only way to have a party winning on majoritarian economic progressive policy (like FDR's era of the D party) is to take it over. To do this we have to split the D party with an insurgency, eject the establishment, corporatism, wall-street, donor driven wing and form a coalition on economic policy. A 3rd party can't do it because the electoral system is so corrupted that the current duopoly can always win. (Although 3rd party may sometimes be a useful tactic.)
This requires welcoming into the coalition those who support its democratic-majority economic goals even if they have different views on the culture war issues (gunz, idpol, church, abortion, cops, race, etc.)
The Clinton/Obama/Biden/Perez-type Ds are consistently about 90% R in their actions. (They all but said they are never-trump Rs last year at the DNC and in the general campain.) It's time we force them out so they go join the party they really belong to.
So we need to split the party. Those who support establishment Ds (maybe they sincerely believe in lesser-of-two-evils or that Ds are substantially better on culture and equality) are not in the coalition that I want to be part of.
So, frankly, I'd rather have economically progressive/socially conservative voters in the coalition than liberal socials progressives who are ok with the Ds support of the economic status quo.
So uniting the left is a non-goal to me if you count as "left" the establishment Ds and their supporters who reject this concept of economic class war as a priority over the culture war.
I should go farther. So, in summary, the broad-based popular economic coalition we need must take over the D party. It has to do this by splitting it, driving a wedge and welcoming those who may be turned off by the D party's current culture stance. Hence if you oppose that kind of populism, as I understand Vaush does, then
WHY WOULD WE WANT UNITY with that kind of pseudo-leftist?
the thing thats dumb about most lefty infighting is we agree on 98% of issues/platforms/programs. the remaining 2% is how we GET to those issues/platforms/programs. And few people have the humility to actually engage in good faith. Everyone's so damn bullheaded about whether they're right or wrong about that 2% we completely miss out on making the 98% into reality. I have a feeling this episode is going to be good if they coalesce around the 98%, acknowledge the 2%, but don't make the 2% 100% of the discourse.
Scrolling for two minutes, this comment section is more toxic than Chernobyl. It's a shame people argue about people and mascots instead of policy and the validity of ideas
Yes-- we shouldn't be "othering" them or dehumanizing them, but tackling them ideologically, rather than hemorrhaging our own. They're able to unify and rally far greater than we are, because their fringes accept the utility of their center and vice versa. Like Vaush was able to raise $290k for Palestinian children in a livestream because Palestinians in Gaza are getting bombed. Kyle Rittenhouse's mom was able to raise $2 million for bail because she let her kid go out of state with and provoke violence with a gun he wasn't legally allowed to carry. The disproportionality of support vs nobility of left and right needs to be bridged, and I hope through conversations like this (assuming it goes how I think it will go) will only help the left and by proxy, the world.
Krystal and Kyle, you are both intelligent and reasonable people. Normally, your interviews are with insightful and intelligent guests. Therefore, I am disappointed you wasted an episode interviewing this trash.
Vaush is extremely intelligent and extremely good and effective at debating lunatics on the right online. We need people on the left online that know how to debate and make uninformed people that start listening to the lunatics on the right hear a well spoken leftist make the right winger they’re speaking with and their ideas look dumb . Without that the right is extremely good at amassing large followings online and it’s dangerous ass ideology . Especially more and more nowadays . Vaush understands , on one hand, there’s lefty’s online and around that take the SJW stuff waaaaay too far and is totally willing to criticize them and does it all the time. But on the other hand he also understand that society cannot only he analyzed through the lens of class. Class is extremely important and analazyint through that lens brings us to solutions that deal with helping working people which fixes a lot of issues in society . But it doesn’t solve all issues and in fact leaves out some extremely important problems in society that can’t be solved with class analysis alone. It’s just reality that , in America especially, race is an extremely important and necessary lens in which you must analyze society. Reality is even if we fixed class issues and make society as good as it can get in that regard where working people have more dignified lives and make higher wages and have larger safety nets they can rely upon to help them, that still won’t address the many people in America that are taught and grow up HATING people of other races because of their skin color . They legitimately look at them as animals that are underneath them. This has seeped into American society more than any other country and effected our criminal justice system , housing , education, workplace, etc . This REQUIRES class and identity analysis which leads to solutions such as cultural shifts, and policy solutions like much needed criminal justice reform, prison reform, and drug law reform . These things are extremely necessary and when you only focus on class alone, those things are left out and solutions aren’t encompassing enough to deal with all the major problems in American society. Kyle just does not understand this. Obviously there’s leftists , like I already said, that invoke identity way too much and when it’s not necessary. But that doesn’t mean it’s never necessary to invoke identity, due to the reality of different identities making for different treatment and experiences in society . Kyle recently even scoffed at the idea of “intersectionality” . Intersectionalty is extremely important and it would do him well to actually understand it. It’s the idea of exactly what I just pointed out. That in working to fix society you need to look at thing through , intersecting, lenses of analysis . That’s the only way to achieve true leftist change and betterment of society , for EVERYONE.
I said at the very begin, that I want to hear what he has to say, specifically about market socialism (in which I was born), without all the noise and trashing.
But before they even released the video, we got the whole pack here (Woof! Woof!), as Lars predicted.
So again, tell me please how are you different than any other cult: religious people, authoritarian leftists, right wingers, Trump MAGA, Blue MAGA, etc.
And please name one single libertarian socialist / anarcho-communist that has build such cult of blind following (in such a short time)? (p.s. Lenin was an authoritarian, by any measure)
Ow, is that another word you learned since you become a socialist (six months ago)?
Born and raised in market socialist country and worked most of my life in worker co-op environment. So I don't need 24 year old bullshitter (Vaush that would be, not you Joey-pup) to preach me these terms nor I need a pack of other feeble minded sycophants to fortify my beliefs.
So again: any kind of cultism and blind following, as your friend who wishes me dead, not even coz we disagree politically, but just coz I insulted his fellow cultists, is absolutely contradictory to liberal socialism (or anarcho-communism).
Thank you! Vaush is very important for the left as he is one of the few that debates the other side with facts and logic. Krystal & Kyle also need to be challenged and neither really debate anyone.
This comment section is literally why we can't have nice things on the left. This is why we will get steamrolled in 2022 and 2024. The lefts inter battle, gatekeeping and having to meet 💯 purity test. Whether you like Krystal, Kyle and Vaush or not you have to come to the end conclusion that they are all on the same team and generally moving the left platform ahead.
The online left / Twitter left is the most toxic community in politics.
so far, the top comments are all saying this exact statement, so don't let the perceived toxicity make you think that it's in any way as substantial as it seems like.
It's a highly excited group of haters who put their soul into it, versus a massive plurality of cool headed, good world wanting rational people, and the former focuses on their commentary like it was their job to hate on people allot more than we diligently look for every opportunity to be accepting and thoughtful. It's also a lot easier to be toxic than thoughtful, it's just there are people who preach for thoughtful toxicity out there rallying people up into mobs because it's one of the most competitive outlets out there.
twitter's entire userbase is literally less than 5% of the population and vaush's entire fanbase isn't even old enough to fucking vote. but go off.
See what I mean
no, the point you're making isn't an actual point. the people on the left in america actually working towards progress and actionable change are those in the streets and in the activist sphere out in the world, off of the internet, actually *doing* shit - not bad faith egoist pundits like vaush or his legion of 12-year-old hyperfans who all just sit online all in their basements all day while constantly yelling at or congratulating each other in their *tiny* bubble, feeding social media engagement algorithms designed to keep them doing this shit, and then pretending this is somehow activism or actually accomplishing anything. the idea that the terminally online "left" is the reason the broader american left will either get steamrolled *or* win - or effect literally anything whatsoever politically - is a total fallacy in the first place. the terminally online "left" is doing jack and shit and barely a blip on the actual political radar because sitting on twitter (again, a site that literally has less than 5% of the actual population on it) all day isn't a fucking political movement. the broader left that's actually *off* of twitter, and outside that bubble trying to change peoples' minds and accomplish shit are the future and the actual gage of where we're headed and who gets steamrolled vs who wins. vaush et al do not even factor into nor effect the equation one way or another - they're fucking meaningless noise online LARPers doing literally nothing while convincing themselves they're infinitely more important than they are. more leftists need to start reading jaron lanier and getting off of fucking twitter.
You've been all over this comment section frothing at the mouth, spewing your "opinions" of Vaush. We get it bro, you don't like the guy. It's fine.
But it seems he lives rent free in your head. The interview is not out yet and you can't seem to get off this comment section telling everyone about your hate boner.
At this point I don't even want to engage with him. I kind of just feel sorry for him. Poor fella.
Dude, log off. Holy shit
God I hope I don't hate 12 year olds this much in 40 years.
you let me know when that (or any) charity actually helps anyone. i'll wait.
Let me know when you do anything even half as good for anyone
Pretty sure a fat 300k dollars American goes a long way towards helping kids in Palestine but okay, just dismiss that and keep "waiting" I guess.
Do you have Vaush’s YouTube demographics on hand? Are these facts or are u literally just talking out of your ass? I think it’s the latter. Vaush is reaching Gen Z with big progressive ideas. That’s important work. We should applaud that work no shit on the guy doing it. Do you have any idea how many young kids get sucked down the alt right pipeline on YouTube? I bet you don’t have a clue about the algorithms and how if I watch 1 video of an edgy comedian I’m 3 clicks away from Tucker Carlson and Steven Crowder being crammed in to my suggestions fir the next month. The internet alt right pipeline is poisoning the minds of our youth and people like Vaush are educating them on political science, advocacy, criminal justice, economic reform, and all kinds of other wonderful things. If you don’t see value in that I can’t help you.
I think you mixing him up with Hasan Piker
You're still here mad as fuck. quite sad actually. Vaush lives rent free in your head. Lol
Yes thank you for this comment. Agree whole heartedly. We have Kyle and Vaush two widly popular leftist YouTube stars who agree in principle about almost every major political issue and yet every wants to bash Vaush for some reason beyond my comprehension. Why don’t we support people who push our agenda forward? No we sit here trying to find ways to tear them down and nitpick. I see Vaush simps doing the same shit to Kyle on the other side. It’s insanity.
Still absolutely relevant in the age of the Krystal & Bernie interview.
Given that applies to any section of the left right now since last year, nah i think it'll be a lack of leadership and direction that gets us "steamrolled" the problem is lack of leadership going on. Along with too many people being willing to throw people under the bus.
Despite what a bunch of reactionaries on here are whining about. Vaush is a great leftist streamer with smart insightful takes.
This interview is actually the reason I just subscribed. And if you keep having interesting guests like him, shoeonhead, etc ill keep subscribed.
"Smart insightful takes"
> Vaush - obese slob rich off daddy's trust fund, corporate neolib shill LARPing as a revolutionary, "sees no reason why cp shouldn't be legal"
> shoeonhead - former antifeminist "skeptic" turned SJW, changes political opinions faster than she changes wigs, no principles or genuine beliefs besides pandering to her MRA audience
The absolute state of Americans lmfao
So you have no idea what you're talking about? Got it.
lmao try again. Why don't you go take a look into IrishLaddie's background and tell me what I'm wrong about, his privileged Beverly Hills upbringing or his literal defending of child porn
Tom Wjust now
Lol
1. It doesnt matter where he grew up. What type of bigoted bullshit is that?
2. The fact that you believe he defends CP proves you dont have a clue what you're talking about. Vaush didnt defend CP. He was using it as an overall comparison to argue that Child Sweat Shops should be as taboo as CP. And he was right. It was like an hour long debate and you apperently only watched a 5 min clip taken out of context.
Like legitmately the pedo accusation is the #1 way you can tell if a Vaush hater is in bad faith. Cause anybody who argues in any good faith would have tried to see the whole clip. He legitmately denounces CP like 3 times during the whole damn video
when he's done jerking off to horse cock, I hope he sees this bro
Why so you can finally be acknowledged for being edgy? Unlikely to happen
Tongue-in-cheek comparison aside it was still a pretty dumb delivery. Trying to say CP is OK under any circumstances would never be done by anyone who isn't being incredibly stupid or possibly partakes or thinks about doing it themselves. He's supposed to be this iconic pseudo-intellectual debater so the former option certainly cannot exist!
> town he grew up in/class he comes from
What does that have to do with his policy positions and whether or not they're good?
> defending of child porn
This is when I have to start wondering if you're trolling or stupid. That smear was debunked ages ago. You have no idea what you're talking about, or you're baiting.
Exactly. You can always tell legit critics of Vaush from trolls with VDS based on if they try to use the CP argument.
Anyone who saw the whole discussion would know he didnt actually defend CP. Its only reactionaries who base all their opinions off twitter posts who are stupid enough to try and argue that point
You literally have no capacity for nuance and your cache is too full of BS to absorb context. So you watch clip channels? Lol
Same
Subscribed exclusively for this. The Vaush hate from other leftists is generally so deranged and fact free (in many ways comparable to the how the worst shitlibs used to treat what they called “bernie bros”). It’s so dumb.
Krystal and Kyle, who I both fundamentally like, went too far off the rails for me during FTV, I hope this redeems them a bit.
Same, subbed for this interview, hopefully will be compelled to stay.
So far they had: Noam Chomsky, Richard Wolff, Cornel West, Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi,etc.
But you guys subscribed for Vaush?
Whom you watch two hours a day on average?
Without getting into 'cult of personality' topic again:
If you truly believe in market socialism, wouldn't you have subscribe when Richard Wolff was a guest? Or Chomsky?
Or here is even a better question, since all of you are subscribed now:
Who do you want to see next? I'm VERY curious?
That’s quite confused. The fact that Vaush is not an academic or an established intellectual, like Chomsky, Wolff, and Cornel West, does not in any way address the fact that the hatred against Vaush is deranged and fact free.
Do I want to pay to hear Chomsky, Wolff, and Cornel West being interviewed by fairly shallow non-academics for the nth time? Not really.
Why pay to see Vaush here then? Well he is, like all these leftists media figures, important for how he impacts regular people and helps nudge the overton wind, not because he is some leading intellectual academically speaking. Vaush is a fantastic new voice in this sense, that also sharpens this leftist media space in his own ways.
And the meeting of Vaush and Krystal and Kyle is about a kind of symbolic healing of a sad rift in the left, post Bernie/Biden elections and especially FTV. This interview is symbolically very interesting for such reasons.
I am not personally interested in who Krystal and Kyle interviews next. But I would like to see Vaush talk to Chomsky about their shared opinion that FTV is deeply idiotic.
Also, putting Chomsky, Wolff, and Cornell West in the same sentence like that with Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi means you are not a very serious person.
Well I did not put them in 'same sentence', Krystal and Kyle did, as these were some of the most known people they had on the show. So credit them for that..
As for you not being interested to see ANYONE but Vaush.
Yeah, that doesn't sound as close-minded sycophantic cultism at all..
It's a bit difficult for you to grasp the points I make, isn't it? That's why you're not addressing any of them, right? That's ok. Love all around.
All of us have our own reasons for winding up here. I'll watch Vaush now and then. I found him and a few other youtubers while I was wasting my time enjoying retirement.
Back in the day I leaned pretty heavily conservatively. Probably because I was active duty and that's a pretty right leaning community. It wasn't until a few years before I retired not long after the 2016 election when I started to slowly wake up. I started watching other news channels. More local and national. Less cable. I used to LOVE going down YouTube's algorithm rabbit hole of "I wonder what kind of crazy alien, flat-earth, conspiracy stuff" next.
I don't know how it happened but somehow I got directed to Tim Pool's channel and it snapped me the hell out of it. One of the easiest things I've done was click the little "never recommend this channel" button for him. I ran into a couple other right wingy channels that I had to dig myself out of.
It was channels like Vaush's that helped pull me out of it. There was a pretty cool guy that dressed up like a corn cob. Serfs and pals, Pakman, Kyle here too. They ALL helped get me to a MUCH better place.
I NEVER listened to Chomsky up until a couple months ago. I didn't know who Wolff was until he hung out with Serfs and Destiny. Honestly, a few years ago I couldn't have cared less. Now I'm a sponge again and eager to listen, learn, and help out as much as I can. I can only hope it's not too late.
I can't talk for most any of these people, but if they're anything like me and are here because they genuinely want to learn why should it matter what brought them here?
If you've got ANYONE that I need to go listen to or read about please let me know! I've got plenty of time on my hands and I'll be darned if I let video games take up all that time! :D
I personally would want to see interview with Michael Parenti more than anything.
He's very old and has not given interview in years.
As for who to watch, if we stay on topic of worker co-ops there is really only Richard Wolff, though he has multiple shows on his channel, and one of them is specifically about worker co-ops. I don't know if there is anything else in English. But if you want to dive deeper in that subjects you should look for books by Branko Horvat.
On libertarian socialism:
Beside Chomsky, Cornel and Parenti, there was David Graeber, who unfortunately died last year, same as Michael Brooks. Graeber came with the slogan 'We are the 99%'. I also think Chris Hedges is very much a libertarian socialist.
In Europe, there is DiEM25: Yanis Varoufakis & Srecko Horvat, they bring lot of international guests. And then, of course, there is Slavoj Zizek, who calls himself whatever.. and says lot of other crazy stuff, but I would put him in same category.
Thanks for all the info. I added these to my reading list.
Cody, of Some More News: It's like Last Week Tonight, for people who had to vomit in their mouth to vote for Bhihiiiiden.
I ran into Mr Cody when Jim from The Office started his Some Good News show. YouTube algorithmed my right into his episode about Jim spoofing his spoof news show. I used to be a sarcastic asshole, so I immediately connected to Cody as if we were each other's spirit animal or something.
Shoeonhead, and I'm just starting to listen to Denims,
Noam's a good time where we all agree for a very long and drawnout way that doesn't necessarily bring something new to the table. Richard Wolff's brilliant, if, opinionated yet only powerful if the debate is very heavily economics based, and, that's only part of it in the modern culture war. Cornel West's a powerhouse, not above the fray so much as enlightened to the important things, yet, again, well known older commentator who's known less for sticking it to the new aged cultural issues than for brining home the message for the longstanding, cross-spectrum American. Greenwald, quite compelling based legal know-how, broke stories, etc, ect.
Vaush is a contemporary social studies autist who's spent more hours than the rest of the cast combined dealing particularly in the heavily modern streamed debate format. He's forged something that could be considered a reality talk show who's entire contingent is on discourse of ideas, often times with people well beyond the pale. It's allot of contrast and it's a modern group phenomenon that's very worth attending to. Guy's been at it, what, 3 years? Give him 20 to 30 more and there's qute the likelihood that he has more comparable clout to your tastes.
Personally I'd like Cody of Some More News, but, then again, like many people who'd have tuned in while we got to this episode, I like fresh faces, dramatists, artists, and performers who are still building their recognition, who's clout comes from their attempted application in the face of powerlessness, not just established, longstanding positions where they've formerly affected things somewhat.
yup, I've been a fan of both Krystal and Kyle for a while respectively but decided to pay up just to watch this episode.
Same, just subbed for a year.
while i’ll keep my paid subscription cause i love you guys, this will be the first episode i absolutely do not watch. vaush is a 100% bad faith actor who seems to solely exist just to be the human version of the hyper-SJW, virtue-signaling, hypocritical, fart-sniffing strawman fox news loves to pretend the broader left is. will see how many of his weird 12-year-old cultist followers hop on this post to yell at me for saying this, but yeah, sorry. no fucking thanks.
This will be one of the first episodes I will tune in to. I find Vaush represents a unique millennial view that is often scoffed at and overlooked by main stream media. Very weird you’re obsessed with 12 year olds and farts. 🤷🏻♂️
Can you describe this unique millennial view? Where it came from, what and who it serves etc? As a superannuated Michael Foot-type leftist who thinks "left" has to do with things like labor, class solidarity, economic emancipation and so on, I'm woefully out of touch. I'm interested.
Literally just subscribed to see this. An actual interesting conversation.
Yep, me too. New subscriber BECAUSE of Vaush who is an incredible debater IMO
This will be the first one I watch.
lol I literally came to the comments just to see the super butthurt Krystal Ball stans like you lose your shit that Vaush is on the show. Thank you for not disappointing just remember not to throw too much of temper tantrum when they both end up saying nice things about him. We wouldn’t want you hurting yourself over Internet personalities haha
why krystal's fans? prob kyles stans tbh lol
They both already like Vaush or they wouldn't have invited him on.
Did you just preemptively claim victimhood on your own virtue-signaling hypocritical, fart-sniffing strawman post? Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, there is a good-faith misunderstanding happening here. For the record, I agree with Kyle and believe that Vaush stumbled into a use-mention fallacy (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use–mention_distinction). It will be interesting to see if Kyle can help him see it.
no was just letting vaush stans know beforehand (cause i know how this works with them) that they can yell at me all they want and i won’t respond.
also this is about WAY MORE than vaush’s dumbass “critique” of kyle. vaush’s entire track record is BS like this and i’ve seen enough of him (particularly when “debating” other leftists) to know better at this point. he’s a shithead. full stop.
You’ve responded a bunch already and the video hasn’t even dropped lol
I enjoyed seeing you seethe all throughout this thread, ty
This guy has a serious case of VDS.
Wait wait. Hold on. Did you just twist another’s objections to virtue signaling by feigning the charge of hypocrisy, thereby also virtue signaling yourself? Cmon. This is ridiculous.
The passive aggressive, tacit thread the cancel your "paid subscription" 😄. Relax bud. You're being more toxic to the discourse in this comments section than anything vaush has ever done/said, and your refusal to even watch the convo validates the caricatures of snowflake leftists that the right talks about all the time to dismiss the left at large, and a lot of people on the fence cringe at having to agree on anything with characters like you.
No one cares you don't like him bro. It'll be a spicy convo either way and that's surely why they're talking.
When was the last time you watched him? I started following him less than 1 year ago, and didn't get that impression at all. I did watch some of his old content, and found it pretty obnoxious, but he's one of the few commentators that addresses his past failures, faults, flaws, and outright fuck-ups. If you haven't seen recent content, you might have your perspective changed.
I pretty much agree with this assessment. My take from watching Vaush is that he is young, passionate, bull-headed, and sees himself as a protector. Vaush instinctually lashes out before statements are completed, leaving him open to critiques of straw-manning. ((However)), he is also honest and brutally self-reflective. He casts full videos attacking his past self. More recently, in his debates, I dare say, he seems constructive in his arguments. A sign that he is not starting from the childish notion that the other participants are of ill intent.
Vaush's comments about Kyle seemed to be more about attention seeking than genuine concern. Disappointed to see Kyle is humoring the toddler behavior.
I can take another look; however, I recall Vaush praising Kyle on multiple occasions. No matter the result, I predict this episode will expose far more agreements than disagreements.
Don't bother, I've watched plenty of him and they're just upset he dare challenge people they really like. I've been there myself, but he's been right on wayyy more of his arguments than the opposition has
EVERYTHING vaush does is attention-seeking. watching him debate literally anyone else on the left is painful. he just constantly spews ad-hominem, "gotcha", self-aggrandizing horseshit. i look forward to him reiterating to krystal's face his opinion on how how she (and rising) is a GaTeWaY tO tHe aLt-RiGhT since he's one of the terminally twitter addicted morons who's been loudly humping that bandwagon as well. anything to get himself more clicks and more engagement from the horde of emotionally stunted children who watch him religiously.
I have to agree with you. Sadly most of the time, it's just bad faith takes on an otherwise cogent argument.
I'm hoping that Krystal and Kyle will be able to have a good conversation, because that's what they are good at. But I'm not holding out too much hope for Vaush.
I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised. Or at least that's the hope.
i’ve seen enough of vaush (and his endlessly steamrolling / attacking the people he debates before they’ve even tried to make a point) to just not care enough to watch. he reminds me of so many of the other insular “leftist” LARPers i knew back when i lived in seattle where he does who constantly attack each other and then wonder why bill gates and jeff bezos run everything there. let me know what happens i guess. i just can’t with that guy anymore. krystal and kyle will eventually figure out that he’s not worth the time of day.
This is perhaps the one valid criticism I've seen, even if I don't agree 100%. I agree with Vaush that at times there's a value to going hard on certain interlocutors, especially when those people are themselves bad faith. The mere optics of being rhetorically body slammed WORKS when it comes to convincing people on the right that their faux intellectual demagogue is completely full of shit.
Yes, at times Vaush has gone overboard on people who, if not certainly, then at least seemingly do not bring it on themselves. But he gets called out on it by his own community, and he has spoken multiple times about his own self-awareness of this fact. He has gotten better over time, is all I really have to say about it in the end.
None of your other criticisms are worth a damn, but this one is at least somewhat fair in my opinion lmao
You really don't like him do you? Like Jesus dude, you're commenting on everyone's stuff hate bashing him. What's any of the most recent content you've watched of his?
I agree with all both of you said, but I will watch it too.
Mostly cos, his own channel is absolutely unwatchable trash.
And yes, Lars, brace yourself for army of his 12-year-old self-proclaimed 'Marxist-Leninist' cultist followers! :D
As for a 'surprise': it's possible.
It did surprise me already that for most of his interview with Hakim, I did not have such a strong desire to smack him in the face, as I usually do.. :D
You obviously aren't familiar with (at least the current) Vaush content... He is pretty much the opposite of a Marxist Leninist...
His stuff is actually pretty good. I watch him, pakman, Kyle and everyone else. He has some bad opinions on things but often grows to challenge those opinions like us.
woooooo a nuanced opinion snuck in under the reactionist radar. Tip of the hat Matt.
Oh, I'm very familiar with his latest 'transformation' into market / liberal socialist, which is pretty much an ideology in which I'm raised, but I still think that his followers are the cult of trendy privileged lil brats (same as he is). ;)
Yet, credit where credit is due: let's see what he has to say!
@Joselito Duric Lol what are you talking about? Vaush has been a market socialist/libertarian socialist the entire time he’s made videos . That’s always been his position LOL
So wait, between being just a lazy gamer and 'enlightened' libertarian socialist (so: year and a half ago), wasn't he calling himself a 'Marxist-Leninist'?
It's hard to follow what you guys call yourselves while you're streaming a game, pleasuring each other and trolling everyone else.. :D
Incorrect Vaush nor his fans "proclaim themselves to be Marxist-Leninist", if you make a critique of someone it would help to know the most basic information about them. "I'm very familiar with his latest 'transformation' into market / liberal socialist, which is pretty much an ideology in which I'm raised" this statement has too many holes in it to count, so onto another "I did not have such a strong desire to smack him in the face, as I usually do.. :D" ah very intelligent wanting to commit violence against someone who disagrees with you politically. I mean I could just quote more dumb things you've said but I think we can conclude from this you have major case VDS seek medical attention soon.
Monitors must cost you millions! ^_^
🤫 My company is providing them for WFH.. 😁
😂 That's perfect!
Lmao, just actually watch one of his streams instead of watching out-of-context clips on twitter and maybe you'd form a different opinon.
Depending when someone tunes in he could sound pithy and smug, which, I'm sure, once reacting to vaush like chewing tinfoil they'd tune out in five minutes and affirm themselves that next time they really will let their gut opinions lead the way and not listen to those dumb cultist followers.
Worth watching. I'd recommend.
k boomer
Whats the worst that happens if you hear this conversation? Either you get proven correct or reconsider some things. I don't see any upside to keeping yourself in the dark. Having strong opinions is great but you need to do the homework first.
lmao embarrassing
Your loss, he aint as awful as you think- I mean he's been a dipshit in the past and loses his cool from time to time, but I tend to take people as they are in the moment, and he's generally a pretty intelligent dude with a good way of describing some concepts.
I doubt they'll press him on controversial issues. The went extremely easy on Shoe.
vaush is A LOT more abrasive and assholish than shoe and has a history of targeting both krystal and kyle directly with his horseshit, so... we'll see about that, i guess. not that i'll be watching, but i'd be genuinely surprised if vaush doesn't lead with some shit like "so krystal, why are you literally a nazi trying to convert leftists to saager's point of view? now let me proceed to talk over you and insult you for the next 45 minutes without actually letting you respond to this accusation i've just pulled directly out of my ass like i do everything else i claim to believe."
I never watched Vaush before, but I think it was a good video. I do think a lot of his followers seem to be toxic and just like I've seen with Jimmy Dore Fans. I also don't like Jimmy, but I won't write him off as dishonest. Jimmy can be vitriol and I could see Vaush also being as well so I can see you not wanting to watch him.
Those of us on the left do need to find a way work together and I feel like the die hard followers of Vausch n some others makes it near impossible. Keep fighting and I am glad you stuck around regardless.
Very excited for this episode! Vaush is a great streamer. Sometimes he makes mistakes and will more than willing to correct himself. He has been critical of both Kyle and Krystal but he means it all in good faith. It will not be a shit storm. Relax all you haters. Give Vaush this one listen. It's an INTERVIEW! not a debate!
Laughing at all the people mad about this interview. It's funny that they have no problem with krystal partnering with a right-winger with a ghoulish worldview completely antithetical to their supposed socialist worldview. LOL these people are jokes. There are plenty of things to critique vaush about, because most human beings have flaws. All in all he is a net good to the left. The same goes for krystal even though I disagree with her editorial and a narrative choices on occasion.
So disappointing. This guy is awful.
Man this guy is fantastic. Best guest they've had so far. Too bad your too lost in your own negativity to understand positive arguments. Too bad, I'm sure you'll figure it out eventually. Just. Takes some people longer than others 😃
i feel like half the comments in here are newly subscribed vaush fan boys, this one included
I found the conversation to be entertaining but let's face it Vaush who puts owning people and being the first to come up with an idea above doing the right thing. A grifter for sure but whatever keeps the yung'uns entertained as they grow up... glad the left has its own pro "debate bros" with fragile egos!
100%. i love kyle but there are a few areas where he is truly a dupe, and he's definitely been duped by vaush. oh well... he'll figure shit out eventually.
you're a strange guy. Most people would decide to not watch something and move on but you seem to be running up and down this comment section with the sole purpose of poisoning the well?
"Duped". What could vaush possibly be duping him for 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
What are some of your criticisms of Vaush?
You could at least say WHY you think he's awful.
Most people who think hes awful only do so cause they were told to on Twitter
I don't look at twitter. I was introduced to the videos by a friend and saw what he has to offer.
yea. Shapiro of the left. He's got a bunch of kids fooled tho because he talks fast. But he's kind of a kid too, and most people don't take him seriously so its whatever.
Vaush talks hella slow. But maybe that's just the fast talking midwestern environment that born and raised me?
If there's ONE reason I'll listen to someone it's because they're speaking at a speed I can comprehend. I hate having to listen to someone on half speed.
Awesome I LOVE Vaush!! I think this will be a great conversation. Great work so far guys!
lol, this is probably the heaviest comment section for KK&F and the vid hasn't even dropped yet.
This was the first time I even came into a comments section on their substack lol.
I know. It's odd how few comments this blog normally gets. Why is that?
Judging by these comments, gonna go out on a limb and say that left unity isn't happening anytime soon.
I notice a lot of people vaguely bitching without actually saying what their criticisms are.
I've never watched vaush and I try (often unsuccessfully) to avoid Twitter, so I don't really have an opinion either way. It's just sad to see strangers being this vicious to each other over an internet personality.
Yes, sadly, this is a lot less about policies and a lot more about building toxic cult of personality around himself.
yes. those people are known as “vaush stans” 🤷♂️
Sure, man. Nobody else here is saying anything vicious. Like, I dunno, falsely accusing Vaush of being a pedophile, or being condescending to his fans or undermining the validity of his ability to affect change or presuming (falsely) that he has done no actual real world praxis.
No big deal though, nothing vicious about any of that.
Uniting the left is an unhelpful framing, in my view. The only way to have a party winning on majoritarian economic progressive policy (like FDR's era of the D party) is to take it over. To do this we have to split the D party with an insurgency, eject the establishment, corporatism, wall-street, donor driven wing and form a coalition on economic policy. A 3rd party can't do it because the electoral system is so corrupted that the current duopoly can always win. (Although 3rd party may sometimes be a useful tactic.)
This requires welcoming into the coalition those who support its democratic-majority economic goals even if they have different views on the culture war issues (gunz, idpol, church, abortion, cops, race, etc.)
The Clinton/Obama/Biden/Perez-type Ds are consistently about 90% R in their actions. (They all but said they are never-trump Rs last year at the DNC and in the general campain.) It's time we force them out so they go join the party they really belong to.
So we need to split the party. Those who support establishment Ds (maybe they sincerely believe in lesser-of-two-evils or that Ds are substantially better on culture and equality) are not in the coalition that I want to be part of.
So, frankly, I'd rather have economically progressive/socially conservative voters in the coalition than liberal socials progressives who are ok with the Ds support of the economic status quo.
So uniting the left is a non-goal to me if you count as "left" the establishment Ds and their supporters who reject this concept of economic class war as a priority over the culture war.
I should go farther. So, in summary, the broad-based popular economic coalition we need must take over the D party. It has to do this by splitting it, driving a wedge and welcoming those who may be turned off by the D party's current culture stance. Hence if you oppose that kind of populism, as I understand Vaush does, then
WHY WOULD WE WANT UNITY with that kind of pseudo-leftist?
the thing thats dumb about most lefty infighting is we agree on 98% of issues/platforms/programs. the remaining 2% is how we GET to those issues/platforms/programs. And few people have the humility to actually engage in good faith. Everyone's so damn bullheaded about whether they're right or wrong about that 2% we completely miss out on making the 98% into reality. I have a feeling this episode is going to be good if they coalesce around the 98%, acknowledge the 2%, but don't make the 2% 100% of the discourse.
Scrolling for two minutes, this comment section is more toxic than Chernobyl. It's a shame people argue about people and mascots instead of policy and the validity of ideas
100 % agree we should be arguing with the right wingers right now kinda depressing.
Yes-- we shouldn't be "othering" them or dehumanizing them, but tackling them ideologically, rather than hemorrhaging our own. They're able to unify and rally far greater than we are, because their fringes accept the utility of their center and vice versa. Like Vaush was able to raise $290k for Palestinian children in a livestream because Palestinians in Gaza are getting bombed. Kyle Rittenhouse's mom was able to raise $2 million for bail because she let her kid go out of state with and provoke violence with a gun he wasn't legally allowed to carry. The disproportionality of support vs nobility of left and right needs to be bridged, and I hope through conversations like this (assuming it goes how I think it will go) will only help the left and by proxy, the world.
Krystal and Kyle, you are both intelligent and reasonable people. Normally, your interviews are with insightful and intelligent guests. Therefore, I am disappointed you wasted an episode interviewing this trash.
Vaush is extremely intelligent and extremely good and effective at debating lunatics on the right online. We need people on the left online that know how to debate and make uninformed people that start listening to the lunatics on the right hear a well spoken leftist make the right winger they’re speaking with and their ideas look dumb . Without that the right is extremely good at amassing large followings online and it’s dangerous ass ideology . Especially more and more nowadays . Vaush understands , on one hand, there’s lefty’s online and around that take the SJW stuff waaaaay too far and is totally willing to criticize them and does it all the time. But on the other hand he also understand that society cannot only he analyzed through the lens of class. Class is extremely important and analazyint through that lens brings us to solutions that deal with helping working people which fixes a lot of issues in society . But it doesn’t solve all issues and in fact leaves out some extremely important problems in society that can’t be solved with class analysis alone. It’s just reality that , in America especially, race is an extremely important and necessary lens in which you must analyze society. Reality is even if we fixed class issues and make society as good as it can get in that regard where working people have more dignified lives and make higher wages and have larger safety nets they can rely upon to help them, that still won’t address the many people in America that are taught and grow up HATING people of other races because of their skin color . They legitimately look at them as animals that are underneath them. This has seeped into American society more than any other country and effected our criminal justice system , housing , education, workplace, etc . This REQUIRES class and identity analysis which leads to solutions such as cultural shifts, and policy solutions like much needed criminal justice reform, prison reform, and drug law reform . These things are extremely necessary and when you only focus on class alone, those things are left out and solutions aren’t encompassing enough to deal with all the major problems in American society. Kyle just does not understand this. Obviously there’s leftists , like I already said, that invoke identity way too much and when it’s not necessary. But that doesn’t mean it’s never necessary to invoke identity, due to the reality of different identities making for different treatment and experiences in society . Kyle recently even scoffed at the idea of “intersectionality” . Intersectionalty is extremely important and it would do him well to actually understand it. It’s the idea of exactly what I just pointed out. That in working to fix society you need to look at thing through , intersecting, lenses of analysis . That’s the only way to achieve true leftist change and betterment of society , for EVERYONE.
Bravo!
You did not forget to mention 'Intersectionality'!
You are Vaush's favorite @puppyofday! :D
You’re a fucking caricature of a human being LOL
Thank you! You are too kind. ;)
I'll take that any time, rather than being somebody's barking dog, puppy!
You're barking back right now, just in the opposite direction.
Vagueposting BS, no actual criticism. Boring.
I said at the very begin, that I want to hear what he has to say, specifically about market socialism (in which I was born), without all the noise and trashing.
But before they even released the video, we got the whole pack here (Woof! Woof!), as Lars predicted.
So again, tell me please how are you different than any other cult: religious people, authoritarian leftists, right wingers, Trump MAGA, Blue MAGA, etc.
And please name one single libertarian socialist / anarcho-communist that has build such cult of blind following (in such a short time)? (p.s. Lenin was an authoritarian, by any measure)
Nah your just a reactionary...
Ow, is that another word you learned since you become a socialist (six months ago)?
Born and raised in market socialist country and worked most of my life in worker co-op environment. So I don't need 24 year old bullshitter (Vaush that would be, not you Joey-pup) to preach me these terms nor I need a pack of other feeble minded sycophants to fortify my beliefs.
So again: any kind of cultism and blind following, as your friend who wishes me dead, not even coz we disagree politically, but just coz I insulted his fellow cultists, is absolutely contradictory to liberal socialism (or anarcho-communism).
Yo wtf dude. I like vaush a lot but I'm not gunna hope this clown gets cancer and dies 🤣
Thanks for concerns, but it's all under control, says my dermatologist. ;)
Wtf, behave bro
so are u joey honestly chill dawg
Thank you! Vaush is very important for the left as he is one of the few that debates the other side with facts and logic. Krystal & Kyle also need to be challenged and neither really debate anyone.
What the fuckkkkkkk. It's very good that they're having Vaush on
Tell me you've never actually watched a Vaush stream without telling me you've never actually watched a Vaush stream.
Vaush Good Vaush Good
Lol. Sounds like someone who has developed Vaush derangement syndrome 🤔
Maybe watching this will make you reconsider your attitude, and maybe not. Either way I think he deserves a fair shake
So you want to cancel Kyle and Krystal for daring to speak to Vaush? How intolerant of you.
I subscribed just to watch this episode tbh. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out!
I think you can get it without a sub by waiting an extra day.
This will be GOOD
Vaush is a Ben Shapiro socialist.
K&K: Can we have unity on the left?
This comment section: Allow us to introduce ourselves
LOL. I thought the headline was a pretty lame case of Betteridge but your answer is funnier. Thanks for the chuckle.